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Tippetarius posted...
there'd need to be another explanation for how it could show up in future games.

There's one very easy explanation that I know a lot of fans hate: the Master Sword from SS and BotW may not be the same sword from TWW.

Bear with me for a second as I explain. We've heard a lot of different tales about the Master Sword that contradict one another. Some of these things could be written off as legends being misremembered over time if we wanted to take the easy way out, but not all of the differences can. Here's what I mean:

ALttP told us that the Master Sword was created by the people of Hyrule. The goddesses instructed the people of Hyrule to create a sword in the event that the Triforce fell into the wrong hands. This sword would be able to withstand the magic of any evildoer, even if he had the full power of the Triforce on his side. TP tells us that the sages used their wisdom to guide the creation of this sword, and TWW tells us that the sword maintained its powers while sages were praying for it. (And that if the sages ever stopped praying for it, the sword would lose its powers.) OoT says that this sword was so powerful that evil couldn't touch it.

Now compare that to the Master Sword from SS. It wasn't created by the people of Hyrule (because it was created during a time when Hyrule didn't exist, and it was created by one single person (two if you count Fi)). It was created at Impa's behest, not the goddesses'. The sword was created in order to activate the Gate of Time. It had nothing to do with resisting magic or protecting the Triforce. No sages were involved in its creation. And no sages are required for the sword to maintain its powers. On top of that, evil is able to grab the sword and hold it (see Ghirahim) or be sealed inside it (see Demise).

And there's precedent for multiple Master Swords in the series. (Or at least multiple swords that are named "Master Sword".) In the Oracles games (which are canonically ordered Seasons and then Ages), you find a broken sword in the possession of an old Zora that lived 400 years in the past. He trades the pieces to you, and when you reforge the pieces together, it creates a new Master Sword. And since the Master Sword had been hidden in the Lost Woods for centuries before ALttP (which Oracles takes place after but still probably somewhat near), it's extremely unlikely that the Master Sword from the Oracles games is the same blade as the Master Sword from ALttP.

So it's possible that there are at least two Master Swords: the really strong one that can resist the magic of a villain using the Triforce, and that is so strong that evil can't touch it (but it has a major weakness to make up for these strengths in that it requires the power of sages to maintain its abilities), and the weaker but more consistent one that doesn't need sage power to be maintained and is still extremely deadly to demons but defeats them a bit more slowly in comparison.

Maybe sword beams are another power unique to the "weaker" one, which would mean the OoT/TP/TWW blade is one blade while the SS/ALttP/ALBW/BotW blade is the other blade. (Even though ALttP contains some lore info on the "stronger" blade, it may feature the "weaker" blade.)

All that aside, it's also simply possible that the Great Sea didn't manage to destroy the Master Sword at Daphnes's wish (or that it was reforged) after the floodwaters receded (if they eventually do).
(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: Tippetarius

Tippetarius
1 month ago#22
Wow...That's a lot to process.

I've been suspecting lately that the sword in The Wind Waker may not be the same as the one in other games, as well, though that's mostly due to how different it looks. The hilt and crossguard both have a very different, more detailed design than it does in the games that came out later.

However, I do think that a lot of the things you listed could just be retcons, or the legends becoming misconstrued over the centuries. The Master Sword wasn't just "created" -- it's a reforged form of the Goddess Sword, which was once used by Hylia to protect the Triforce from Demise, and nothing goes against the notion that the sages could've helped her forge it.

There are a lot of reasons why the prayers of the sages became necessary by the events of The Wind Waker, and no reasons why they couldn't exist in other games, too, and are just kept secret so that Link doesn't know about them.

Ghirahim never genuinely holds the Master Sword itself. He takes the Goddess Sword from you during your first two battles, because that's its incomplete form before it had its evil-repelling power. (Which was earned from Din's Flame specifically.) He completely foregoes trying to steal the sword from you during the final battle -- the only other time he does it is during the Lightning Round, and that's just an illusion created by the Thunder Dragon.

And Demise being sealed inside the sword is hardly relevant at all, especially since his presence clearly isn't active anymore and doesn't seem to have any adverse effects on the blade. It's not contradicting anything that the sword could be used as a prison for evil.
Call me Tip. Or Tippi, if you prefer. And yes, just like my namesake, I'm actually a girl.
Tippetarius posted...
It's not contradicting anything that the sword could be used as a prison for evil.

Other games tell us that evil can't touch the Master Sword. SS shows us evil being sealed inside the Master Sword, i.e., touching it for an extended period.

User Info: Tippetarius

Tippetarius
1 month ago#24
Volvagia_slayer posted...
Tippetarius posted...
It's not contradicting anything that the sword could be used as a prison for evil.

Other games tell us that evil can't touch the Master Sword. SS shows us evil being sealed inside the Master Sword, i.e., touching it for an extended period.

Okay... When they say the sword cannot be touched by evil, they don't mean it literally can't make contact with evil things. It'd be a pretty useless blade of evil's bane if that were the case. What it means it's that it's more effective when used against evil. It's often the only weapon that can defeat Gannon when he possesses the Triforce of Power, it breaks the curse that trapped Link in wolf form...Sealing a demon king's consciousness inside a weapon with the power to destroy evil wherever it lies is a pretty great idea even if we assume that power exists inside it as well as outside.

As a comparison, if I told you I had a peanut allergy, you wouldn't assume that I'm physically incapable of eating peanuts. It just means my body is tuned to have a severe immune response when I do ingest them.
Call me Tip. Or Tippi, if you prefer. And yes, just like my namesake, I'm actually a girl.
(edited 1 month ago)
I'm not saying that the sword can't make contact with evil things. Generally when a fictional weapon is said to be unable to be touched by evil, it means that evil beings are instantly hurt (or disintegrated in more extreme cases) by attempting to touch said item. Much like how the evil curse TP Link was under was instantly broken when he touched the Master Sword, as you mentioned. If a being of evil were to be sealed inside a blade like that, they would instantly be destroyed, not decay slowly over the course of thousands of years.

User Info: Tippetarius

Tippetarius
1 month ago#26
Volvagia_slayer posted...
I'm not saying that the sword can't make contact with evil things. Generally when a fictional weapon is said to be unable to be touched by evil, it means that evil beings are instantly hurt (or disintegrated in more extreme cases) by attempting to touch said item. Much like how the evil curse TP Link was under was instantly broken when he touched the Master Sword, as you mentioned. If a being of evil were to be sealed inside a blade like that, they would instantly be destroyed, not decay slowly over the course of thousands of years.

Fine, who cares? You win. Congratulations.
Call me Tip. Or Tippi, if you prefer. And yes, just like my namesake, I'm actually a girl.
Thanks? I was just trying to provide clarity since you thought I was saying something other than what I was actually saying. I didn't have any hard feelings about our exchange. You've been a great conversationalist in this thread.
(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: snake_5036

snake_5036
4 weeks ago#28
It takes place at the end of whatever timeline Nintendo wants to put it in.

I'm going with Downfall because the OoT sages (referenced both by the Zora monuments and Urbosa) were not awakened in the child timeline and the adult timeline has way too many issues for me to ever seriously consider it (10,000 years not being enough time for an ocean to recede, Ganondorf becoming a statue and being replaced by other villains carrying Demise's curse in the other games, etc).
You felt your sins weighing down on your neck.
(edited 4 weeks ago)
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