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User Info: casimirney

casimirney
8 years ago#1
Spoilers (not really, but I know a couple people which don't want to read anything about DG).

So I've been super excited to get ahold of the zephyr so I could play around with some rapidfire marksmanship. I just got it and.... I'm having trouble telling a difference between it and the bound bow.

At 0 weight BB fires super quick, and I already have quick shot which should effect zephyr and BB less than other bows... does anybody have the math at hand on this? Is zephyr the fastest now, or does its 10 weight make it drag behind enough to even them out?

User Info: IamI3rian

IamI3rian
8 years ago#2
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Archery#Draw_Speed

Methinks that's what you're looking for. = D

Worth mentioning though, BBow (for whatever reason) is not included on that chart... neither is zephyr.

Best I've got though. = /
IamI3rian told ya
Michael Jackson's kids are white. What's that about?

User Info: casimirney

casimirney
8 years ago#3
After reading through some uesp articles and archived discussions I've determined that no one has any idea about bows and draw speed.

I've seen formulas that don't work with bound bow and have some.... unit issues. (See current formula and discussion page).

I've seen people suggest that heavier bows, if drawn less.than full, will give the same power trajectory and range as lighter bows fully drawn.

I've seen that maximum usable range depends on weight ((didn't you disprove that, Brian? ))

But I think the bottom line is that any bow with weight will be slower than the BB... but I'm sure that's not 100% true. I feel sure if I didn't have the quick draw perk zephyr would be firing faster.

And what about that dps chart? Jump from 9.something dps for daedric to 15 from dragonbone? 11.7 on zephyr?

I don't suppose anyone without quick shot but with zephyr would have a couple minutes?

User Info: IamI3rian

IamI3rian
8 years ago#4
casimirney posted...
I've seen people suggest that heavier bows, if drawn less.than full, will give the same power trajectory and range as lighter bows fully drawn.

I've heard this as well, and in theory, it's mostly correct.

Having the ability to perfectly draw a daedric (or whatever) bow to perfectly mimic the firing speed and damage of a faster bow consistently, is just not happening.

casimirney posted...
the bottom line is that any bow with weight will be slower than the BB... but I'm sure that's not 100% true. I feel sure if I didn't have the quick draw perk zephyr would be firing faster.

Any bow with weight WILL be slower than BBow. The weight of the bow is what determines the speed with which it fires. The only possible exception would be Zephyr... and I'm pretty sure it fires slower. However the DPS could be higher. I don't have DG (PS3 here) so I can't possibly comment, without looking up stuff, and I'd like to avoid that. = /

Do you really think it fires slower with quick draw? Is that what you said? Again, I dunno, since I've never had it - (

casimirney posted...
I've seen that maximum usable range depends on weight ((didn't you disprove that, Brian? ))

This is another "interesting" one. Personally I'm an amazing shot with a BBow, and out of all weapons in the game, I know it best. I'm familiar with nearly every aspect of the bow, and I'm comfortable hitting essentially any target, at any reasonable distance in both 1st and 3rd person view.

Including butterflies in mid flight at 20-30 meters. That's just what happens when you've got more hours with a single weapon than some people have in the entire game.

Anyway, heavier bows have a longer, more extended and less... uh... curved firing arc. For most people, it's MUCH easier to hit a long distance shot with a heavier bow, with the daedric bow having the best "ranged shot" capability (meaning the longest, straightest shot).

That said, the only limiting factor in the game, with regards to arrow range is a certain thing we'll call "draw distance."

Unlike draw distance, "draw distance" is a certain distance (roughly 200 meters or so) where the game still draws an enemy, but it simply doesn't exist. There's no hit box, and if you "hit" it with an arrow, it simply passes through.

This is true with any bow, and probably (though I don't know) TK'd cabbages (for example). I can "hit" elk at this range, with a BBow. I'm not a tremendously good shot with other bows however, since this is my significantly most used weapon.

So... yes and no. There's definitely an "effective" range on weapons.

Sorry for the late response, I had a SUPREMELY long day today.
IamI3rian told ya
Michael Jackson's kids are white. What's that about?

User Info: theonyxphoenix

theonyxphoenix
8 years ago#5
I went and grabbed Zephyr and Bound Bow as well as having Auriel's Bow and an Orcish One. I'm going to run some tests with speed and quick draw but not until tomorrow.
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ndztp88pa7l9l85

User Info: casimirney

casimirney
8 years ago#6
Thank you both. In case you didn't catch it, that first little spoiler warning was for you Brian. I know how hard you're working on avoiding all things DLC.

Anyway, I just wish I had picked up zephyr before quickly shot so I child compared them more easily. BUt BB and zephyr arc and speed seem to be almost identical right now.

BB will probably stay above it on DPS. My smithing isn't capped, bit its around 80. With the dwarven perk and some smithing gear, BB is still outright stronger.

The DG bows seem to me to play by different rules. Haven't gotten auriels bow yet but I picked up a dragonbone bow in the soul cairn (weight 20) and it fires MUCH faster than my Nightingale (weight 15).

And I've heard rumors that Auriels bow fires faster than normal weapons also.

But I'm excited to see the slew of numbers heading this way.

User Info: IamI3rian

IamI3rian
8 years ago#7
I know it was for me. Thankfully I already (sorta) know the stats about Zephyr... and as long as we keep the discussion limited to that (as opposed to quests/stories etc...) I'm perfectly OK with it. Greatly appreciate the effort though. Courtesy is a lost art these days, it seems.

What is Zephyr? Is it a unique, or is it based off another bow (like a hunting bow, for example), and what's its weight?

Can you temper it, and if so, what do you use?

Anyway, if Onyx is on it, we'll find out. I trust his tests at least as much as I trust my own (he seems to be a pro tester. = )...)

Either way, a DBone fires faster than the Nightingale you say?

Just out of curiosity, what level did you get it? (ok... simple question, what's the frost damage?)

P.S. Again, would you do me a solid and test something casimir? Get some (Alchemy spoilers--->)salt, and a deathbell and make some slow poison. Poison the nightingale bow, and shoot someone. Report back. = )

Thanks. I wanna see if I can "replicate" the slowdown effect NPC's get with their frost spells.

You're a peach, and I owe ya one.
IamI3rian told ya
Somebody's been eating my porridge. =' (

User Info: Xydru

Xydru
8 years ago#8
IamI3rian posted...
What is Zephyr? Is it a unique, or is it based off another bow (like a hunting bow, for example), and what's its weight? Can you temper it, and if so, what do you use?
It's a Dwarven Bow that fires 30% faster, much like the Longhammer's enchantment. It weighs 10lbs and is affected by Dwarven Smithing (uses Dwarven ingot).

Either way, a DBone fires faster than the Nightingale?
Yes, the Dragonbone Bow has a draw speed roughly similar to a Dwarven Bow (iirc from previous testing). When I first got one, I noticed it had a much faster draw speed than I would've expected it, being the strongest bow. I thought it would be slower than a daedric bow.

P.S. Again, would you do me a solid and test something? Get some (Alchemy spoilers--->)salt, and a deathbell and make some slow poison. Poison the nightingale bow, and shoot someone. Report back. = )
I wanna see if I can "replicate" the slowdown effect NPC's get with their frost spells. .

I know you asked casimirney.. But

Since I started playing my Arcane Archer, I've noticed I've been able to slowdown enemies to a crawl by using a frost enchanted bow. According to a couple sources, the slowdowns % is the same on enchanted weapons regardless of magnitude. This seems to be true in my experience, however, UESP says it has 2 second duration. It seems to last longer than that for me at times. Whether its simply AI not registering full speed again sometimes, I can't say.

You can successfully slow down an enemy to a crawl with a frost enchantment (at least on a bow) and by landing consecutive shots quick enough (arrow bashing helps with this a bit, with Quick/Power Shot helping by significant amounts - they seem more prone to just walking when coming out of a stagger). However, anything that resists frost won't slow down very much. And unfortunatley, that's a lot of enemies.

Just tested slowing capabilities with frost bow + slow poison..
. You can slow an enemy to a crawl, but, it seems to be inconsistent and after applying the slow poison I wasn't able to cause another slowdown until it wore off.

User Info: IamI3rian

IamI3rian
8 years ago#9
So... stacking doesn't work. = (

Aw man.
IamI3rian told ya
-> = c]- {

User Info: casimirney

casimirney
8 years ago#10
Xydru posted...
IamI3rian posted...
What is Zephyr? Is it a unique, or is it based off another bow (like a hunting bow, for example), and what's its weight? Can you temper it, and if so, what do you use?
It's a Dwarven Bow that fires 30% faster, much like the Longhammer's enchantment. It weighs 10lbs and is affected by Dwarven Smithing (uses Dwarven ingot).

Either way, a DBone fires faster than the Nightingale?
Yes, the Dragonbone Bow has a draw speed roughly similar to a Dwarven Bow (iirc from previous testing). When I first got one, I noticed it had a much faster draw speed than I would've expected it, being the strongest bow. I thought it would be slower than a daedric bow.

P.S. Again, would you do me a solid and test something? Get some (Alchemy spoilers--->)salt, and a deathbell and make some slow poison. Poison the nightingale bow, and shoot someone. Report back. = )
I wanna see if I can "replicate" the slowdown effect NPC's get with their frost spells. .

I know you asked casimirney.. But

Since I started playing my Arcane Archer, I've noticed I've been able to slowdown enemies to a crawl by using a frost enchanted bow. According to a couple sources, the slowdowns % is the same on enchanted weapons regardless of magnitude. This seems to be true in my experience, however, UESP says it has 2 second duration. It seems to last longer than that for me at times. Whether its simply AI not registering full speed again sometimes, I can't say.

You can successfully slow down an enemy to a crawl with a frost enchantment (at least on a bow) and by landing consecutive shots quick enough (arrow bashing helps with this a bit, with Quick/Power Shot helping by significant amounts - they seem more prone to just walking when coming out of a stagger). However, anything that resists frost won't slow down very much. And unfortunatley, that's a lot of enemies.

Just tested slowing capabilities with frost bow + slow poison..
. You can slow an enemy to a crawl, but, it seems to be inconsistent and after applying the slow poison I wasn't able to cause another slowdown until it wore off.

Thanks dude. Haven't had alot of spare time the past couple of days.

Btw, my Nightingale is second best... don't remember what level (or frost strength) off the top of my head. I remember weight is 15 and I think that changes with level along with damage and enchantment.

Glad I wasn't imagining things with the dragonbone bow too.... its a quick little sucker. Can you tell if it arcs like a lighter bow also? I'm gonna try to spend some time tonight figuring a couple things out. Once I Smith it ill have something enjoyable that can outdo my BB.
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