What happened?

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User Info: Firensis

Firensis
1 month ago#1
I thought Dota 2 was going strong, seemed like the new updates revitalized things a bit. Why the hate for this game?

User Info: crunchy612

crunchy612
1 month ago#2
hate=/=dead game

a lot of people who hate the game still play it regardless
806/807 LivingDex|Playing: Warframe, Ultra Moon
I can no longer say I'm a lonely soul; you lift me up... -Laura Brehm

User Info: Annuit_Coeptis

Annuit_Coeptis
1 month ago#3
i mean if you want a serious answer:

1) it's full of toxic people. now some people will always be s*** but also the game is badly designed in a way that encourages toxicity. just one example, it's a well known result that people with low empathy (psychopaths) don't have their behaviour changed much by punishment. yet everything valve does relies on punishment. the whole thing is some valve employee furiously jerking off at the prospect of punishing people instead of thinking about how a functional system would work
2) despite all the whining about "it's harder than you think to detect feeders/toxicity/etc" and bringing up corner cases, it's actually not that hard. valve have an absolutely massive dataset at this point, and it's nicely classified. a halfway competent math/cs guy could design and implement a machine learning system to accurately detect bad behaviour in a month
3) f2p cosmetics and the treasure box system are designed for purchases to have a long tail distribution, i.e. to extract money from the most vulnerable people (gambling addictions)
4) dota games about take an hour, which is a gigantic waste of time, and it's even worse if you requeue for another game if you lose. you could be doing useful things with your life, or even play other games that don't piss you off half the time
5) valve rakes in money from steam by taking 30% of revenue for all games sold and does f*** all to justify that expense. they're just sitting complacent on the network effects that they're reaping from having the first working/popular games distribution platform at this point
6) even just talking about income from dota2, valve gets tens of millions from every TI and yet the game still has a bunch of easily fixed bugs
7) cosmetics artists (aka the people who actually make the things that valve makes money off of from dota2) and custom map creators (how dota got its start) keep getting f***ed over. for how much of their revenue cut goes to valve and how valve keeps breaking things and abandoning them instead of fixing them
8) the new player experience is complete s***. bad tutorials that teach new players nothing and then throwing them into unranked. all their attempts to fix this had zero effort put in and were abject failures, which leads to:
9) NA and EUR dota are kind of dead. right now the game is by far biggest in RUS and SEA (maybe CN too, I don't know whether Perfect World servers were included in stats)
10) valve sucks ass at communicating with people. also their customer service is balls
11) the ONLY good part of the game is the gameplay and balance (and maybe the art/sound design/lore too). and that's all Icefrog (/guinsoo/eul), who was doing a bang up job before valve. granted, it COULD be the case that valve hired a bunch of people to internally beta test new patch balance (like any competent company would) and so not all credit goes to icefrog, but i have zero reason to believe that that's even the case

User Info: Annuit_Coeptis

Annuit_Coeptis
1 month ago#4
someone post this on r/dota2 please. i want to see if people agree or if the mods delete it for flaming valve (i 100% admit it does, i deeply dislike valve)

User Info: JowyBlight

JowyBlight
1 month ago#5
Doter is poop and the players who play it are smelly poop.
I started playing some again over the holidays (f*** me) but I'm ready to quit again, game just doesn't have the relative quality it used to have and so many long standing problems still haven't been addressed.

And there's just so much dumb s*** in the game nowadays. You know that Flanderization thing of media characters?
A lot of that applies to Dota gameplay where it's like a distorted clone of the real thing.
Not just all the safety nets that mean a lot of the impact you make simply doesn't matter much, but also all the outplay/mechanical factors that were outright removed.
The latter means that there's often no solution at all for a scenario (which comes up far too often) so the player just feels robbed.

A quick example is that WK for example. You could counter his ult through mana burn, but now he has a talent that nullifies that.
Oh and the CD on it is lower too so you always have to deal with his ult.
Yeah he needs lv. 20 to get it but when you buff a skill in such a way, you don't buff the actual values on the skill too but that's what they did.

Or take LD, his summon was balanced around the fact that it couldn't attack if the hero wasn't within close range.
Now he can with scepter so you can turn him into a 3k hp kamikaze bomb with 2m respawn time that kills towers in a couple paw swipes while the hero is chilling at fountain.
You basically can't counter that in pub, I've seen some pro games where someone used that strat to comeback win. If you're Annuit you'd probably laugh at something like that because it's so cheesy but the team playing probably felt robbed losing to something like that.
Also you could instantly destroy the summon by killing the hero which was an effective way of dealing with LD and they removed that too with the scepter buff because Valve.

Those are just 2 examples but even on a basic level there is so much boring stuff in Dota nowadays. Like that Ogre having like 8 armor and 6 base regen without items which means it's impossible to lane against him as an offlaner. Same thing with SB charging at you mid with absurd base stats which just ruins you.
Or just a******s spamming Tinker/Dusa every game gets boring fast too.

And that's just gameplay, the actual issues surrounding the game like the matchmaking or the lack of punishments are even more problematic.
When you have to deal with countless things, why even play the game when you could do something more fun or productive?
"Riou...you came. Just like you promised. ...here we are ...here once again."

User Info: JowyBlight

JowyBlight
1 month ago#6
The best thing they did in a while was removing PMS, which means that safe lane carries don't autowin the lane without any effort, or melee offlaners auto winning against many duo safe lanes.
That was a major reason why I started playing again since it made laning interesting again, but there's still a lot of BS in the game.

Nowadays the focus has shifted far away from individual skill and awareness toward hero picks and item choices which results in the game being more about who picks the most abusive combos rather than who plays better individually or as a team.
That doesn't mean skill doesn't matter anymore but it does result in weaker gameplay because so many of the skill factors were turned into automatic/passive things instead which you can't exploit as an enemy and as a user you can't f*** up.
"Riou...you came. Just like you promised. ...here we are ...here once again."

User Info: Annuit_Coeptis

Annuit_Coeptis
1 month ago#7
PMS offlane was great though

pick a tanky offlaner, get some regen and take no damage from that idiot support trying to harass you while they f*** up lane equilibrium. used to straight up win offlane 60%+ of the time, which tilts the safelane carry and supports to hell and back

might actually have been my favorite patch in dota

User Info: JowyBlight

JowyBlight
1 month ago#8
Yeah if you're benefiting from it it's great, but from a basic gameplay PoV where a character practically takes no damage right at the start of the game, that's just not good because it throws most of the mechanical skill in the laning stage out of the window.
And then it means enemy carry has complete free farm which sets you up for a s*** mid-late game, or as a safe lane zoner enemy offlaner is getting a lot more than they should logically which can result in the above as well.
"Riou...you came. Just like you promised. ...here we are ...here once again."

User Info: Annuit_Coeptis

Annuit_Coeptis
1 month ago#9
yeah i know it's bad design

s*** was hilarious though. won so many games and tilted so many people

User Info: crunchy612

crunchy612
1 month ago#10
is this to 500
806/807 LivingDex|Playing: Warframe, Ultra Moon
I can no longer say I'm a lonely soul; you lift me up... -Laura Brehm
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