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User Info: Kirbyfreak411

Kirbyfreak411
10 years ago#1
Just how much Sturm ought to be a broken CO...
I just finally beat the last (normal) campaign mission yesterday and got an S-rank overall (25 S-ranks total) and bought Sturm at the shop. Man, I love him!!!
I can't believe I thought he wouldn't be all that great but now...I think that, save when it's snowing, the even movement cost ability just rocks!
0_0 That's freaky...

User Info: Xenesis Xenon

Xenesis Xenon
10 years ago#2
Sturm in Snow isn't actually any weaker. He just gets the same movement costs anyone else in snow apart from Olaf gets.
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User Info: jhUni_x

jhUni_x
10 years ago#3
Well Colin and Grit are better then him on practically all maps for these reasons:

Sturm vs Colin
Colin will easily beat any other CO on larger maps, even Sturm won't have a chance. If the map is smaller then it is preferable to have lots of choke points so that Colin can make it into a long game. Colin always wins long games. Otherwise Sturm will win.

Sturm vs Grit:
Grit is arguably the most broken CO because there aren't many maps that he isn't good at. Simply put he will beat Sturm on most maps because of artillery spaming.
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User Info: Kirbyfreak411

Kirbyfreak411
10 years ago#4
Colin will easily beat any other CO on larger maps, even Sturm won't have a chance. If the map is smaller then it is preferable to have lots of choke points so that Colin can make it into a long game. Colin always wins long games. Otherwise Sturm will win.

The problem there is that Colin's cut down on power (except with his SCOP) will prove to be problematic and Sturm can just overpower him (especially if Sturm can pump out Neos).

Grit is arguably the most broken CO because there aren't many maps that he isn't good at. Simply put he will beat Sturm on most maps because of artillery spaming.

And here, if I'm using Sturm, then the Grit user had better use a big choke point or else I'll swarm over his defensive line a make his artillery go blooey with a big tank squad (and he'd best hope that there's no airports or he'll have to use up space to put in a missile unit).
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User Info: jhUni_x

jhUni_x
10 years ago#5
The problem there is that Colin's cut down on power (except with his SCOP) will prove to be problematic and Sturm can just overpower him (especially if Sturm can pump out Neos).

In any long game, Colin is left to save up funds. Then after a few DGR's he will have countless funds. He will essentially at that point be pumping out the best units out of every production facility.

Colin will have 10 neotanks for every single neotank that Sturm has. Simply put his neos won't be that useful. Besides this if theres air then he can get two bombers to kill each neotanks.

600,000 funds = 300,000 fund gold rushes = 13 neotanks.
(600,000 funds = 1320% boost = I kill anything).

Grit user had better use a big choke point or else I'll swarm over his defensive line a make his artillery go blooey with a big tank squad.

Grit doesn't need big chokepoints. Ever heard of meatshields?
http://www.amarriner.com/awbw_forum/viewtopic.php?t=3811

and he'd best hope that there's no airports or he'll have to use up space to put in a missile unit

Grit clearly doesn't need missiles he can still get anti-airs. Unless you're Colin/Hachi your air units will not be cost-effective against him. Anti-airs are much less price then bombers, and b-chopters won't stand a chance.

Besides two missiles, which are about the price of a bomber should easily eliminate all air units.
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User Info: Xenesis Xenon

Xenesis Xenon
10 years ago#6
I don't see how you're arguing that Colin and Grit are better than Sturm.

As broken as those two are, they're still inferior to that of Sturm.

Sturm has better stats, gets more effect from terrain defence, has more mobility and a better SCOP.

On a lot of maps Sturm can just shoot out an Early recon to cripple any opponent's capture phase, and his mobility means that on a lot of maps he gets a funding advantage. Colin and Grit's firepower deficient units are so ineffectual against sturm that it's hilarious. Grit still does less damage to Sturm's units than Sturm does to Grit's units even with Grit's best units. Colin effectively needs neotanks to take on Sturm's Tanks and Grit's meatshielding prowess is compromised because Sturm gets various OHKOs against his meatshields, resists damage and has a SCOP that breaks a stall completely.

Essentially:

Sturm has a broken D2D and a broken SCOP
Colin has a massively overpowered D2D, a broken COP and a massively overpowered SCOP
Grit has a broken D2D, a fantastic COP and a great SCOP.
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User Info: Xenesis Xenon

Xenesis Xenon
10 years ago#7
^Also, AWBW Sturm is 80/120, while AW2 Sturm is actually 120/120, so you can't really use AWBW for comparison here.
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User Info: jhUni_x

jhUni_x
10 years ago#8
Sturm is probably better then Colin on most maps, however, even Sturm won't have a chance on Colin's forte.
You do admit this much right?...

Anyways as for Grit:
Sturm gets various OHKOs against his meatshields, resists damage and has a SCOP that breaks a stall completely.

Well Sturm's firepower is not going to be any better the Max's and his SCOP is around 10 stars. You have to remember Kanbei's units are stronger then his and even his units will at least get into a close fight with Grit, nothing that is significantly slated.

You said Sturm is better then all other CO's by a very large margin and I am just pointing out that there are other broken CO's and they all have their own strong points. Sturm isn't significantly better I mean in a lot maps Hachi vs Sturm will be close fight, and in some maps in Colin vs Sturm he won't have a chance. Some maps like predeployed ones Kanbei will probably be better. You should read this topic it has interesting stuff:

http://www.amarriner.com/awbw_forum/viewtopic.php?t=9734

so you can't really use AWBW for comparison here.

I'll play you on AWBW. Maybe we can arrange something to compensate for the lack of AW2 Sturm.


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User Info: Xenesis Xenon

Xenesis Xenon
10 years ago#9
Tsk.

Don't put words in my mouth.

I just said that Colin and Grit are inferior to Sturm. Sturm isn't an instant win button Vs those two, and they definitely have more than enough power to fight back and win a good percentage of the time against him. They're all certainly god tier and that isn't going to change anytime soon. Sturm basically has the advantage against those two of being less situational.

I mean, you even said this yourself. Sturm is probably better then Colin on most maps. If Sturm beats Colin on 51% of all accepted balanced maps and Colin beats Sturm on 49%, Sturm is better than Colin. Colin in his element will beat Sturm, yes. Grit in his element will beat Sturm, yes. Sturm however is an optimal pick regardless of the map and Sturm out of his element is still frighteningly powerful.

Well Sturm's firepower is not going to be any better the Max's and his SCOP is around 10 stars. You have to remember Kanbei's units are stronger then his and even his units will at least get into a close fight with Grit, nothing that is significantly slated.
Indeed. Kanbei, however lacks the ability to gimp early game easily due to his relatively sluggish expansion; despite that the 130% defence makes it massively hard to stop any capturing he starts.

As for the Max comment, yes. You don't need to throw numbers at me. I wrote the book on AW2 CO stats and reverse engineered the damage and weather probability formulas.

I'll play you on AWBW. Maybe we can arrange something to compensate for the lack of AW2 Sturm.
You could, however I detest AWBW's interface and I haven't played any competitive AW2 since AWDS (CW) and AWDoR (Wifi) it'd be a waste of both of our time, especially as we largely agree with each other.
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User Info: jhUni_x

jhUni_x
10 years ago#10
we largely agree with each other.
My Website - http://jhuni.freehostia.com
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