• Post New Message
You're browsing the GameFAQs Message Boards as a guest. Sign Up for free (or Log In if you already have an account) to be able to post messages, change how messages are displayed, and view media in posts.
  1. Boards
  2. Seiken Densetsu 3
  3. Looking back at my SD3 "balance patch", and what actually happened...

User Info: MyNameIsMabble

MyNameIsMabble
1 year ago#1
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/588648-seiken-densetsu-3/77442889

...So it goes without saying that I really couldn't have predicted a lot of the system changes, such as eliminating the dex stat completely and the new leveling system. So obviously, it goes without saying that basically nothing I laid out for the game actually happened.

Having said that, I feel like what I proposed with Duran was ALMOST on the right track- at least, Duran's Light classes match the vision I was pushing for, and I think the point was made pretty well- in SD3 Vanilla, Light Duran is a solid character with all the tools he needs to succeed. It's just that shields don't work the way they're supposed to, which does hurt him, and that Kevin exists, and can also go Light. And in my experiences with Trials of Mana, we kind of live in that reality- where shields actually work and the knobs went way back on Kevin, so Duran thrives a lot more in this new environment.

And speaking of Kevin, let's talk about him for a moment. My proposal was to push Kevin away from the DPS side and more to the tank side. The remake ended up taking the opposite approach- which is perfectly valid, but we can all agree Kevin had to be hit somewhere- being the best DPS AND tank in the game is just ridiculous. As back on the SNES, every character represented a stat (Who goes where is obvious, so I won't waste breath recapping it all for you) and Kevin's "stat" was Stamina/Endurance/whatever you will, it was a lot more intuitive to me to make that his focus, but the developers decided to swap roles and to make Kevin the designated DPS and Duran the tank. Which I'm fine with, that format works just as well, what with Duran's light classes getting shields and Kevin's wolf form...

Carlie/Charlotte/whoever was a healer before, and she's a healer now, and... yeah. She heals. I don't know how badly you need a designated healer when I believe you still have access to multitarget heal lights (at least, I have no reason to believe that's changed, do correct me if I'm wrong about this, we don't exactly have this big database for remake information yet so I sort of just have to extrapolate off of word of mouth) but one change I do approve of is that I'm hearing that using Poto Oils comes out a lot slower than having her cast Heal Light- so there's a valid reason to have a healer in your party. And that's a good thing!

Hawkeye... I don't really have a lot of info on how new Hawkeye works. I'm under the impression it's a lot of debuffing and status effects and damage over time. Which is certainly in Rogue flavor and works for the kind of archetype he's supposed to be. But I'd be lying if I told you I wasn't really hoping for the kind of super speedy slice n dice Ninja Archetype I was trying to push in my topic- get in, get out, that kind of thing. And the removal of the dex stat did make me sad that you can't push for that sort of thing, I was all excited for move speed boosts and additional combos and stuff like that (which might be part of his kit later on, but I doubt it? Again, tell me if I'm wrong)

Lise, Rise, Risez... can we just go Street Fighter on this and call the character "Valkyrie?" I'm two seconds away from doing that on the regular at this point.

So, yeah, Valkyrie. Just by virtue of Kevin and Hawkeye getting nerfed, she suddenly just looks so much better by default. Not unlike how the other DPS options getting nerfed was indirectly a buff to Duran. In any case, she still can't heal, but it's not like she ever needed to, right? I'm unsure how viable Poto Oils still are, but you have the same things as usual, buffs are nice, and... yeah. Valkyrie didn't change much. But she didn't really need to. In my topic, I called Valkyrie the character who matched the game design and the developer's intents as closely as possible, and I'm standing by that analysis. She got better because other characters (who deserved it) got nerfed, and didn't get buffed all that much if at all because she really didn't need it, and I think that's a happy day for game balance. But I will say the way you have to build her now is very... counter-intuitive. Pre-class change, you're encouraged to pump strength and stamina into her, because... why put points anywhere else? But post-class change, you have to put points in Spirit, a stat you haven't had any reason to increase while Valkyrie was in her base class. At least you can reset talent points probably for this exact reason, but it's still kind of iffy design, imho.

Angela... hoo boy, I saved the best for last. Angela needed a buff. We all knew this. It's almost a meme in the SD3 community (those of us who know the ins and outs of the game mechanics, at least) how bad Angela, and attack magic as a whole is. But yeesh. Ya think they went a little overboard?! I have a number of problems with how new Angela turned out, and how supposedly insane she gets lategame is only half the equation. She's just so... off the balance point. In the earlygame she's too weak because she's the weakest attacker and her spells are awful. And then in the lategame she nukes bosses and mobs alike. Too weak early, too strong late. There isn't a middle ground here. Angela needed a buff, but this was absolutely the wrong way to go about it, I feel.

Regardless of the balance? SD3 holds a special place in my heart, and I really can't overstate how much it means to me to experience this game where the characters are brought to life in 3D, fleshed out with voice acting and extra dialogue (and say what you will about the voice acting, too) and it's cool that I'm (mostly) satisfied with the balancing they did with the remake- as fond as I am with the original, there were definitely some balancing issues, and those have been mostly balanced out, although a new one named Light Angela (perhaps all Angelas? I'm not sure what the consensus is yet, but things in Light Angela's kit seem more gross) has reared her ugly head from bottom tier.

User Info: Folt

Folt
1 year ago#2
Personally, I think Riesz also got hit with the nerf bat. Aside from maybe Jormungandr, her summons are absolutely ass now, especially in the AI's hands, her attack string can be... restrictive for a melee character. Her biggest draw is that her status buffs are the most potent of anyone... but you also kind of give up a lot to gain those potent buffs.

Hawkeye as is I think actually kind of enjoys the new mechanics. He can fit into a lot of roles depending on which path you go for him. He can be discount Angela who's cheaper to use for most of the game (Rogue, Ninja Master), or a physical attacker with a lot of tricks (Nomad), or provide support through debuffs (Ninja Jutsus, Ranger/Nightblade Status Spells) or buffs (Nomad Spells), though one thing for sure is that Nightblade is actually probably his worst class now due to how a lot of it's gimmicks get stopped cold by bosses while the others can all bring certain things to those fights.

User Info: MyNameIsMabble

MyNameIsMabble
1 year ago#3
Is Rise/Risez/Lise/Valkyie's attack string issues a Tier 3 thing? I admit that I've been slacking off on my playthrough (still on the volcano island) but so far in the middle of Tier 2 I haven't really noticed anything that makes her different from the other melee attackers. It's possible I'm just really terrible at noticing stuff like this?

User Info: hmsong

hmsong
1 year ago#4
I feel like this belongs in the new Trials of Mana forum.

Anyways, I made a balance patch (among others), released on Romhacking.net. Combine that with the bug patch (by someone else), and you'll get... some of the things you requested. Well, I didn't want to change the game TOO much, so most of the skills remained the same. I tried to enhance the 2nd class more, since that's the class you use most of the game.

Let me know what you think, in my message board:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/588648-seiken-densetsu-3/78744167

User Info: MyNameIsMabble

MyNameIsMabble
1 year ago#5
"I feel like this belongs in the new Trials of Mana forum."

Meh. It's directly talking about the original, so here works just as well.

I'll definitely check the hack out when I have time, and when I actually finish my first run of Trials on the switch.

User Info: pazzy

pazzy
7 months ago#6
About Angela. I don't think she's nearly as overpowered as people are saying she is. She burns through mana really fast, and you basically need to make sure you're stocked up on items or she's pretty bad.

As for her balance, she's perfectly fine in the remake. It's annoying to have to carry walnuts constantly, but they are far easier to obtain in this one than the original.

User Info: MyNameIsMabble

MyNameIsMabble
7 months ago#7
pazzy posted...
About Angela. I don't think she's nearly as overpowered as people are saying she is. She burns through mana really fast, and you basically need to make sure you're stocked up on items or she's pretty bad.

As for her balance, she's perfectly fine in the remake. It's annoying to have to carry walnuts constantly, but they are far easier to obtain in this one than the original.

Isn't the whole point of Light Angela that she has basically infinite mana WHILE maintaining absurd damage output? That's what basically everybody I asked has been saying, though I'm still in the middle of my non-Angela playthrough.

User Info: Shoenin

Shoenin
4 months ago#8
Folt posted...
Personally, I think Riesz also got hit with the nerf bat. Aside from maybe Jormungandr, her summons are absolutely ass now, especially in the AI's hands, her attack string can be... restrictive for a melee character. Her biggest draw is that her status buffs are the most potent of anyone... but you also kind of give up a lot to gain those potent buffs.

Never really felt her strings were restrictive. She actually has really good range and distance for melee, its just her horizontal area is a bit smaller than the others and her strong attack sucks, which is fine since you're not supposed to use strong attacks anyways with her outside her string finishers. Her Tier 2/3 strings actually make her hit like a truck, especially if she's dark class. She infact hits harder than everyone aside Kevin and Dark/Light Duran, and because how her statuses got buffed, she actually enables more damage than Duran ever can. Statuses increasing/decreasing an additional 20%(potentially 30% for debuffs) is a lot higher than it sounds, especially for debuffs. Her other and biggest buff: Her 1 class strike/Tech. It's so absurdly good on what it does for how cheap and spammable it is, along with the fact Riesz can fill meter faster than anyone. Shame about Summons still sucking but she only ever really used Star Lancer's anyway for the silence, and its the same in the remake.

Angela basically has infinite/a metric ton of MP as soon as you reach bucca island. She just straight up murders everything since all the problems she had for SD3 are gone and they buffed magic damage in general while adding additional hits on different limbs. She has a slower start than everyone else but its not overly detrimental.

Its hard to say anyone got nerfed overall since every class got buffed in someway.
Well except Duelist which just sucks now and Nightblade which got its legs broke with a hammer.

Hi.
  1. Boards
  2. Seiken Densetsu 3
  3. Looking back at my SD3 "balance patch", and what actually happened...
  • Post New Message

GameFAQs Q&A