further discussion of cao cao's personality stats

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  3. further discussion of cao cao's personality stats

User Info: Cao_Bao

Cao_Bao
4 years ago#1
Cao Cao has int 95, war 91, chm 95, duty 60, vrt 65, ambition 99, compat 01, family number 01, trust 50.

And we saw the effects are include:
1. Cao Cao do not hesitate to attack weaker allies, even the invasion drops his trust level.
2. Cao Cao never surrender to threat letters, even his army is 0 and he is surrounded by thousands.
3. Non-Wei generals have faster dropping loyalties to Cao Cao (compared to Non-Shu generals to Liu Bei).
4. When recruited by Cao Cao, Wu loyalist only have 30's starting loyalty to Cao Cao.
5. Etc and so on.

Let's study which variable are affecting to which conditions, as well as studying the formulas, and studying which more conditions will apply on this type of stats.

User Info: DragonAtma

DragonAtma
4 years ago#2
Ambition (along with a good, solid suypply of officers) is likely why Cao Cao attacks like a madman and *almost* always refuses to surrender. Do keep in mind that one person maanged to get Cao Cao to throw the towel in.

Non-wei generals have faster dropping loyalties than wei generals, because their compatibility (not 1) is distant from his (1). If his officers drop loyalty faster than Liu Bei's in general, maybe it's from Liu Bei having slightly higher charm and (from not attacking like mad) having higher trust...?

Cao Cao has 1 compatibility. Wu loyalists have close to 100 compatibility. That (along with their previous loyalty) is much of why they tend to have such low loyalty. According to SDragon on The Scholars:

x = - [(square root ((ruler kingdom affil - general kingdom affil) * (loyalty / 2)) - 100]..... - means invert the value for + value
new loyalty value = x - (RND 0-5)


Slightly fixed, it would be:
100-sqrt((compatibility difference)*(loyalty/2))-rand(0..5)

Which would give 95~100 for equal compatibility (any loyalty), 45~50 for Sun Quan recruiting 100-loyalty Guan Yu, 59~64 for Sun Quan recruiting 50-loyalty Guan Yu, 24~29 for Sun Quan recruiting 100-loyalty Cao Pi, and 45~50 for Sun Quan recruiting 50-loyalty Cao Pi.
My NES, SNES, and GB all work just fine. Why should I downgrade to a Wii U, PS4, or XBone?

User Info: ServantOfMagnus

ServantOfMagnus
4 years ago#3
Someone got Cao Cao to surrender?

Without modifying anything?

SNES version, or PC?

I am absolutely stunned.

Proof? Details?

My understanding was that the following will not surrender: Liu Bei, Cao Cao (and, presumably, Cao Pi as well), Sun Jian/Ce/Quan, and Dong Zhuo.

However, to my knowledge no one ever identifed the mechanism for this. Perhaps a job for darkmoon? : - )

It would be good to solve, because if I change the officer roster, the clans (& clan order & colors), portraits, stats, etc., then the status of who will and won't surrender might be.....strange.

If it's portrait-based (which it might be, because, as I recall, if Sun Quan becomes a ruler for someone else (or via Tiger-Wolf) when playing scenarios 1 & 2, he still won't surrender, which makes it less likely it has to do with the clan), then I'm OK for most of the above. I guess if I finish the mod and find out [SPOILER ALERT : - D ] that Sun Jian & Sun Ce will surrender but Gongsun Du and Gongsun Kang won't, the mystery will be solved. : - D

User Info: Cao_Bao

Cao_Bao
4 years ago#4
Gongsun Du and Gongsun Kang in RoTK2??

--
Gongsun Zan: "Gongsuns! Tonite we dine in hell!"
Gongsun Yue, Gongsun Fan, Gongsun Du, Gongsun Xu, Gongsun Kang, Gongsun Gong, Gongsun Yuan: "HA-OOH!! HA-OOH!! HA-OOH!!"
Yuan Shao: "What do they think they are? Don't they know that I am...divine..."
*soundtrack 300 music is playing*

User Info: Cao_Bao

Cao_Bao
4 years ago#5
About twenty years ago, I think one of my friend can force Cao Cao to surrender in PC mode fictional. (Snes don't have fictional mode, I think).
In PC fictional mode, the compat, duty, vrt, ambition, and starting location (for hidden future generals) are set to random numbers.
But int, war, chm, and family number, are not random.

--
Cao Bao: "Lu Bu, why you don't switches sides?"
Lu Bu: "This is fictional mode, my friend. In here, I am the most trustworthy general in the world. Heheheh."
Zhao Yun switches sides.

User Info: DragonAtma

DragonAtma
4 years ago#6
PC version, courtesy of 7ryota of http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5680&start=320

http://the-scholars.com/download/file.php?id=495

He was playing as Liu Bei, scenario 1; it looks like he wiped out Gongsun Zan, Han Fu, and Yuan Shao first, and concentrated his officers further south for the push on Cao Cao.
My NES, SNES, and GB all work just fine. Why should I downgrade to a Wii U, PS4, or XBone?

User Info: darkmoon2321

darkmoon2321
4 years ago#7
Getting Cao Cao to surrender shouldn't be quite as difficult as it has been made out to be. I haven't completely finished going through the code for threaten yet, but I noticed a few things:
Threat will always fail unless you have over 6x the number of soldiers of your opponent.
At the spot where the RNG is used, your odds of success appear to be 100-enemy ruler ambition+ threatening rulers trust divided by three.

I tested on Kong Rong. I need to go back and test with Cao Cao next. I've been pretty busy lately, so hopefully I can get more information out over the next week.

I've also been looking into the Gemfire graphics compression that DragonAtma mentioned. I found the code for it in under an hour, but translating it all into a program I can use for decompression is taking awhile. Good news is that Gemfire uses basically the same engine as this game, so the scripting opcodes I listed in the codes topic are used there as well.

User Info: DragonAtma

DragonAtma
4 years ago#8
If it helps, Fusoya's Niche has a program (Lunar Compress) that covers compressing & decompressing several non-Koei games (Super Mario World, Super Mario World 2 / Yoshi's Island, Mario RPG, Zelda 3, Metroid 3, Mario Kart, Sim City, Secret of Mana, MegaMan X, Lufia 1, Lufia 2, RoboTrek, Harvest Moon, Gradius 3, Chrono Trigger, Famicom Tantei/ Detective Club 2, Radical Dreamers, Star Fox 1, Star Fox 2, Sailor Moon Another Story RPG, Sailor Moon R, Pokemon Gold & Silver (GB), Sailor Moon (GB), and Sailor Moon R (GB)).

As for threaten, having a minimum of 6* the enemy's troops doesn't surprise me -- especially since that's the cutoff for AI retreat.
My NES, SNES, and GB all work just fine. Why should I downgrade to a Wii U, PS4, or XBone?

User Info: ____bob____

____bob____
4 years ago#9
It also seems easier to Tiger-Wolf officers loyal to Cao Cao. Cheng Yu,Hu Xin,Zhang Xiu ect
R.I.P Ronnie James Dio

User Info: DragonAtma

DragonAtma
4 years ago#10
I don't think being loyal to Cao Cao would affect it so much as Cao Cao loyalists being more receptive to tiger-wolf. Cheng Yu is no Lu Bu, but IIRC he has lower duty than normal.
My NES, SNES, and GB all work just fine. Why should I downgrade to a Wii U, PS4, or XBone?
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