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User Info: gingerkid021

5 years ago#1
So by the time I got any data, the topic has already been purged.

Only thing I tested was terrain effect of water vs. grass. We knew water was worse, how much is the question. I had Ma Chao (MC) sitting alone in a province, and Xu Chu (XC) attacking him. Made sure Trn/Arm/Wep were equal for both sets of soldiers.

Both on grass (39 battles, 2522 total hits)
MC: 147.386994449 damage/hit
XC: 147.151070579

MC on water, XC on grass (44 battles, 2325 total hits)
MC: 151.392688172
XC: 186.682580645

Seems like you take ~23% more damage standing on water. I'm guessing this will make Ma Chao roughly equivalent to Cao Zhang (war 92).

Other terrains to follow, hopefully they won't take as long.

User Info: DragonAtma

5 years ago#2
Aha! Thank you for recording those numbers; they're useful data!

Keep in mind that the war difference affects both damage you take and damage you receive. So if 100-war Wang Tai would normally deal 40 damage to Lu Bu (and receive 40 damage), he would deal 80 damage to a 50-war Li Jue and take only 20 damage.

So (assuming all else equal), Ma Chao on water would be like an 87-88 war officer on grass. It's only a few points different from your estimation, but they may add up elsewhere. ;)

So, if you're up to it, I recommend doing at least some water vs grass testing with low-war olfficers; the damage ratio is *probably* the same for two of (Chen Jiao/Cheng Bing/Liu Yao), but not guaranteed.

Also I'm curious what the ratios are for differences in big differences training or weapons. Numbers for Charge are also interesting, as are numbers for forest sneak attacks (which may be int-based, not war-based!)

Finally, it looks as if being on grass blocks 20% of the damage you'd take if you were on water; it's entirely possible that they look something like this:
* Water blocks 0% of damage
* Grass, Forest block 20%
* Hills block 30%
* Fort blocks 40%
* Castle blocks 50%
My NES, SNES, and GB all work just fine. Why should I downgrade to a Wii U, PS4, or XBone?
(edited 5 years ago)

User Info: gingerkid021

5 years ago#3
I tried with 84 war Cao Ren, and Ma Chao destroyed him so badly I deleted the data. I figured something in between would be more fair, so I picked Cao Zhang. After one battle it's Cao Zhang winning with 244 men, seems pretty even. I'll do another 10 and see what we get.

User Info: Cao_Bao

5 years ago#4
How if the famous ruler Liu Yong, with the great legend Cao Bao, with Zhong Yao (father of the famous Zhong Hui), and Hua Xin (a pretender of the mighty Hua Xiong), and our excellent advisor Li Ru.... (War 18 + 19 + 16 + 29 + 27, all from scenario 1, the total war is 109), are making simultaneous attack against Lu Bu.
Trains and arms and soldiers are all max; and Lu Bu just wait there and don't attack anyone.
Just put Lu Bu in water or grass, and those five attackers on hills or mountains or fort. Attack simulatenous until Lu Bu is wiped out.
Can they provide him with a decent challenge?

Cao Bao: "I will lead us to glory and victory!"
Napoleon L'Empereur: "How dare you steal my speech!"
Lu Bu: "My military skill is second to none!"
Napoleon L'Empereur: "But..but.."
Cao Bao: "Why don't you yell at him too?"

User Info: DragonAtma

5 years ago#5
Lu Bu would crush the five.

Remember, until you apply terrain modifiers, Lu Bu would do 16 times as much damage as a 25-war officer, 25 times as much damage as a 20-war officer, and 36 times as much damage as a 16.6667-war officer (pretend for a moment that war values can be fractional).

So instead of simply adding war values together, you'd have to square the war values and THEN add them together. 18 + 19 + 16 + 29 + 27 may be a bit larger than 100, but 100^2 is a LOT larger than 18^2 + 19^2 + 16^2 + 29^2 + 27^2.

If you test on equal terrain, Lu Bu should have 75 or so soldiers left (7500 or so in PC). Try it out!
My NES, SNES, and GB all work just fine. Why should I downgrade to a Wii U, PS4, or XBone?

User Info: Cao_Bao

5 years ago#6
Many friends said: normal attacks by five unit (each do normal attacks), is worse than one simult attack.
Is it true?

Cao Bao: "We will destroy Lu Bu's cavalry! Xuzhou-man, what is your profession?!"
(Xuzhou = province 16)
Cao Bao's soldiers: "Hough! Hough! Hough!"

User Info: DragonAtma

5 years ago#7
From my knowledge, everyone attacking one is identical to one officer doing a simultaneous attack and the others all waiting. However, if you use simuls, you can do more damage, and as such you won't use up as much food. it'll also increase the chances you can take someone out before they can flee, and if you're simulling the enemy governor/ruler it'll decrease the amount of times they can attack your team.

Now, Charge seems to use a different formula. Charge seems to fluctuate a lot more than normal attacks, but overall seems to be a little worse in damage ratio. It also usually does more damages to both sides, but the damage fluctuates. Of course, if 99-war Zhao Yun charges 70-war Shen Pei, it;'s safe to assume that Shen Pei will be taking more damage than Zhao Yun! ;)
My NES, SNES, and GB all work just fine. Why should I downgrade to a Wii U, PS4, or XBone?

User Info: gingerkid021

5 years ago#8
I plan on doing most of those tests (charge may be harder to do), but definitely all the terrains, low-war, arms/training (on Scholars forum, someone said arms = defense and train = attack), forest (should be int based, if Zhuge Liang meets Xu Chu he takes 0 damage), simult. bonus (2 at a time at least, 5 at a time may be hard to get 5 people with same war).

Ma Chao on water, Cao Zhang on grass (11 battles, 617 total hits)
MC: 173.431118314
CZ: 165.150729335

Seems close to even, so Ma Chao on water is roughly a Cao Zhang/Xiahou Dun on grass.

User Info: DragonAtma

5 years ago#9
Scenario 2, the following 70-war officers are available: Chen Wu, Cheng Yin, Feng Ji, Jiang Yiqu, Liu Bei, Wang Wei, Yang Ping, and Zhang Lu. Cao Pi joins 202, Chen Shi 208, Xiahou He 216 (all if there's room).

Better yet, Scenarios 5-6, the following 73-war officers are available: Ahui Nan, Lu Ba, Lu Qian, Wang Ping, Wu Yi, Zhu Bao. Two start with Shu, two can easily be sent from Meng Huo to Shu with a 0-soldier two-officer attack, and either Wei or Wu can send one to Shu with a zero-soldier attack. And since you'll be controlling all four forces, there won't be any nonsense going on in the background.
My NES, SNES, and GB all work just fine. Why should I downgrade to a Wii U, PS4, or XBone?

User Info: chaoyun2k

5 years ago#10
I'm not sure if this belongs here, in another topic or in its own topic...I understand (from experience mostly) in this game Zhuge Liang is always right with his advice about anything that can succeed or fail (such as finding new generals or recruiting one). My question is, will this same attribute apply to another general that gains 100 intelligence (it seems that it didn't when I tried years ago) and if not why doesn't it?
Some are wise, some are otherwise, and I have my moments.