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  3. Best Party/Plan (Change my mind)

User Info: Roundman

Roundman
1 month ago#61
I've played more with my Hero - Three Fighter team today. I continue to be impressed with the pace at which this team allows you to progress through the game. The combination of speed and strength allows you to reliably take down enemy parties at lower levels in a way that a more balanced team can't, because you usually kill most of an enemy group before they can move. I really didn't have to grind after getting my fighters Iron Claws and Cloaks of Evasion; I just fought the enemies I encountered as I was progressing the quest. I was able to hit areas several levels lower than a typical run. I was able to do the Samanao cave without problem at around level 20, and I was able to survive in Necrogond at level 25. I fought essentially all encounters, lucked out with a few metal babbles, and got the SIlver Orb with my Hero level 30 and my fighters level 29 after probably a total of 10 hours of playtime, a blistering pace.

This team's poor healing skills became noticeable in Necrogond, though, and I had to evacuate a few times before I was able to make it through. It's annoying that the Hero doesn't learn Healmore until level 29 (level 30 in my case)- that seems to be a mistake in programming (level 19-20 would make more sense). The Heal spell and medical herbs don't go very far at that point in the game. The lack of any way to revive a party member without a LotWT is also annoying. Enemies with high HP pools -such as Trolls- gave my team some trouble, as they could withstand the initial attacks and respond with their high-damage blows, which I then had to waste my limited healing resources. In my successful Necrogond run, I was lucky enough not to run into many Trolls.

I then tried Baramos, who was like hitting a brick wall. Baramos is a particularly daunting task for this team, as he has very high HP and potentially two all-party magic / breath attacks per turn. The lack of protective gear for the fighters makes breath and magic attacks particularly troublesome, and this problem is compounded by the poor healing skills of the team.

Baramos gave me my first full party wipe. I only made it 4 rounds, and that was with Baramos casting a few ineffective Limbo spells. The Explodet and breath attacks were too much for this party, though I'm also under-leveled compared to where I would typically be. In the end I'll probably have to grind up to a level I usually would be with my typical party (level 34 or 35) in order to beat him, and I'll need to get lucky with some critical hits (I only had one during my first attempt).

User Info: Pre_PHD_Lee

Pre_PHD_Lee
1 month ago#62
I admit I was at least a few levels higher than you, Roundyman, when I got to Baramos. Although I didn't go out of my way to grind that high, I tend to get a little carried away with re-exploring things, despite the number of times I've played through. It has the same effect in the end as grinding, I suppose. And I think I got more than one critical hit in the first few rounds. I don't think the battle actually lasted more than a few rounds.

User Info: Roundman

Roundman
1 month ago#63
Pre_PHD_Lee posted...
I admit I was at least a few levels higher than you, Roundyman, when I got to Baramos. Although I didn't go out of my way to grind that high, I tend to get a little carried away with re-exploring things, despite the number of times I've played through. It has the same effect in the end as grinding, I suppose. And I think I got more than one critical hit in the first few rounds. I don't think the battle actually lasted more than a few rounds.


This party definitely has its strengths, but I'm still not convinced it's categorically better than Hero-Soldier-Fighter-Sage overall. The Hero - Three Fighters is definitely better at random enemy slaughter in general, but its limitations really show when fighting very strong enemies. Baramos is one. Trolls are another. I bet Granite Titans, Boss Trolls, Kragacles, and Putregons will also give this group problems, not to mention the bosses in Charlock (though at that point my fighters will all have Shields of Strength, mitigating the healing problems to a large extent). Still, there's something to be said about a party that can allow you to get to the end of the DW 3 world of light in 10 hours- that's at least twice as quick as most parties, because with three fighters you're always capable of fighting enemies that give you relatively great experience for your character level. Once you have the Iron Claw for the three fighters, you're really able to take on the world. You can conquer the Pyramid at level 11. You can confidently approach Samanao at level 16. It's amazing. Just watch out if you get jumped in a surprise attack. This group's success lies completely in the ability to wreck enemy groups before they can move. If that is obviated, then they're sitting ducks.
(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: Roundman

Roundman
1 month ago#64
I was able to beat Baramos this evening. My hero was at level 35 and the three fighters were at level 33. The key was the Hero learning Healall (which he belatedly learned at 35). This allowed me to keep the fighters alive, because luckily Baramos decided to only use one hit-all per turn. On the other hand, my fighters went on an unlucky streak and went 3 or 4 rounds without making a critical hit. One of the fighters was on the verge on death in the final round (I had to use my Healall that turn on someone else) when he finally landed a critical hit, allowing the rest of the team to finish off Baramos that round.

The groups of 3 Kragacles in Alefgard do pose a problem. They take forever to kill off, even if the fighters land critical hits. Plus they can land up to 9 hard hits in a single round. Fortunately they're fairly susceptible to Sleep. I did get surprised attacked by a group of 3 Kragacles once, and they severely injured my team (which had been fully healed before battle). Fortunately, I was able to put them to sleep and beat them before they finished me off.

As an aside, I also used this run to test one funny quirk I've always wondered about. I skipped the Tower of Shanpane during my time in the upper world. After beating Baramos, I traveled to Alefgard and spoke with the reformed Kandar in Brecconary. I then traveled to the Tower of Shanpane to see if Kandar was there. Sure enough, he was there with his gang. I beat them and took the Royal Crown. It's just another example of Dragon Warrior 3 technically allowing for sequence breaking, but not being advanced enough to present an alternate outcome when you do break the sequence. It would have been nice to have Kandar hand over the Golden Crown to you in Brecconary if you hadn't already fought him in Shanpane. Oh well.

User Info: Roundman

Roundman
4 weeks ago#65
I beat Zoma today. My hero was level 41, and my fighters were level 39. I was able to breeze through Alefgard without any problem other than Kragacles (which became less of a problem as my team leveled up, and because I didn't have to travel by boat as much after reaching Returnable places). I did not have to do any dedicated level grinding other than simply fighting the enemies I encountered as I made progress in the quest. Shields of Strength completely mitigated this group's healing problems, and they even worked in the cave northwest of Tantegel (I did not know they worked there). The groups of 3 Putregons in Charlock did present a challenge, as it usually took at least 2 turns to kill them and sometimes 3 and their breath attacks did significant damage to the Fighters. But I used battles with strictly physical enemies (e.g. Granite Titans and Troll Kings) as an opportunity for the Fighters to heal themselves with their SoSs, so my Hero only needed to use a moderate amount of MP to make it to Zoma.

I did use the Sphere of Light against Zoma. After that it was just a waiting game, with one of my Fighters using the Sage's Stone every turn, the Hero attacking and healing as needed, and the other Fighters attacking and using their SoSs as needed. It was great to see Zoma waste turns trying to debuff the team. Eventually I had a string of tremendous hits from my Fighters and killed him.

I'm convinced now that the Hero - 3 Fighter team is the strongest team in NES DW 3. The only real weakness is the relatively poor healing skills, and that only comes into play around Necrogond and Baramos. Once the Hero learns Healall, and especially after getting Shields of Strength for the Fighters, healing is no longer an issue.

Again, the most remarkable thing about this team is how fast it allows you to progress through the game. I beat the game with this team in about 16 hours, and you could probably shave an hour or two off that time by not doing some of the side quests and not talking to townspeople unnecessarily. That's probably twice as fast as a typical run for me. And 41-39-39-39 is a few levels lower than my typical final party, yet this team had an easier time against Zoma than I usually have. Very impressive.

User Info: Roundman

Roundman
4 weeks ago#66
I should also mention that I did not use the Parry/Fight tactic during this run through. Nevertheless, due to high agility, the Fighters' defenses were reasonably sufficient so that this did not usually create problems. Only enemies with strong attacks like Trolls or Kragacles presented physical risks to the Fighters. The lack of equipment protecting against magic or breath attacks presented the Fighters' greatest weakness. Putregons and Salamanders were the most dangerous common enemies this team faced (other than the Slime Snail groups earlier in the game, with their super high defenses and relentless use of Icebolt).

User Info: Darknight97

Darknight97
2 weeks ago#67
The best party imo is the hero, fighter, pilgrim, mage, you can change the mage and priest to sages at the end game or post game if you want to.

This party sacrifices some offense during boss fights but makes up for it's flexibilty during random encounters which is what you will be fighting most of the time and boss fights are managable as long as you can survive for enough turns to deal enough damage to defeat the said boss:

Fighter is preffered since they can crit a lot more and deal huge damage through it, while they are vulnearable to late game enemies breath attacls ,your priest should have multiheal or the sage stone to negate this weakness along with barrier/insulatle. Zoma also spams disruptive wave so the fighter having the higher crit chance is quite advantageous compared to warriors and thieves

Priests get most of the healing spells along with ressurection spells. They get it quicker than the other alternatives too, heroes get it at a later level, while sages have a slower exp gain combined with changing vocations unless you powergrind you won't get zing at the same point as the priest does. If you can powergrind a level 1 sage to get zing at level 24, it is generally spent better off power grinding a priest who can get not only zing but also defeat, healall and perhaps healus along with barrier and revive which should make baramos a joke.

Priests also learn expel which should make the early game a lot easier purging off some enemies if used along with sap and kasap which should improve the overall damage dealt to a boss way earlier, you don't get the orochi's sword until you get a ship and you fight kandar twice before getting it. priests also get speedup which helps against kandar.

I don't get why mages are considered bad when offense spells are probably at their best give or take the way resistances are designed in this game, most enemies are resistant to one type of spells and mages get around three elements if the spells aren't split into more elements like frizz and sizz, using another spell should do the trick and you can get this by trial and error :
The mage's crack spell for example deals on par damage with the fighter's iron claws if they don't crit or if the enemy has got reduced defense through sap or orochi's sword until kazave and kandar.

mages also get buff and kabuff negating their frailness early game and improving the overall parties durability during a boss fight, firebane deals as much damage as the fighter does at the point of the game to a group of enemies if the enemies are resistant switch to crack or bang.

bedragon while not practical is still the best way to kill liquid metal slimes, mages also get transform at the late game which should essentially get you another magic casting priest, sage or hero if you don't feel like slinging offense based spells, mages can easily keep up their mp with drain magic and purchasable prayer rings.

I bought around 20 and I used around 5 to 7 not counting all the free rings I have got theoughout the game.

Sure monsters are resistant to some spells but mages can just cast bikill to the physical units and kill them or use another spell like boom or icespear.

yes there are items that replicate spells but these spells are mid tier spells at best not counting thor's sword, thunder sword and the king's sword, mages get way more spells like explodet, blazemore, snowstorm and the list goes on. also you get bikill way faster if you start off as a mage and unless you recklessly cast spells you shouldn't really run out of mp, at the point you start running out of mp in dungeons, you get either drain magic or can buy prayer rings which you will still buy a stock of to make necrogond easier atleast for healing.

For example: blazemore deals as much damage as two regular fighters hitting zoma at max strength when zoma is sapped.

as for the hp, giving the right personality along with a few stamina seeds should help.

User Info: Darknight97

Darknight97
2 weeks ago#68
this is getting long but mages also get x-ray which should save you against mimics, stepguard to nullify damage from tiles, yes the damage is minor but why don't you choose to avoid the fmage all the way, while it's late invisible, day- night which shifts the time the darkness lamp only switches day to night, but the day night spell can switch from night to day if you need it, this could reduce no. of monster's in a random encounters and some events might be triggered at the day time.

also at the endgame once you feel you have the right spells you can switch your priest or mage to a sage and the other one in the postgame where you can get the second zen book in rimuldar, upto baramos a priest with multiheal does fine and even after that your priest will do fine, since your hero already has a decent amount of healing spells, he could use in case you need it.

While sages do get all the sages, combined with the slower exp gain and the fact that you get one zen book until post game along with being at 20 and player may choose to stay as a priest or a mage to get some spells, it's more practical to do it at either the endgame or postgame where you can get levels easily.

This is in my opinion is the best party and I probably explained it throughly, you are focusing on sheer damage while spells can give you roughly the same damage and some extra utility at the cost of some mp, which is way cheaper in the long run since inns are cheap .

also while prayer rings are expensive but selling two dream rubies for example should net you 15k enough to buy around 6 of them and I'm sure that you will have more equipment and accesories that you will probably never ,sell them and get something that makes your game significantly easier.

Dragon quest is a rpg game while you can minimize grinding, it's always easier to grind and get the equipment rather than say switching vocations at the midgame and power grinding multiple times while you still get the same thing more exp and money the same exp could have gone to the party member who is a priest or a mage and get better spells that can make your game a lot easier.

Take that fighter's advice at ruida's tavern and make your party a fighter, priest and a mage. It takes a few minutes setting up the right personality ,you can also read books or use accesories to change personality, some seeds of stamina and life nuts can help your mage or priest along with the right personality which you are going to do anyway to those three fighters too.

User Info: Pre_PHD_Lee

Pre_PHD_Lee
2 weeks ago#69
Darknight97, you have some good points, some of which have may already been addressed in this thread. Your recommended party is a very effective one, and I doubt many people would claim otherwise. (It is one that I plan to use on future replays). I'm don't think it's true that a wizard is widely considered bad. I personally think they're one of the best classes.

The original post specifically mentioned the parameters of least grinding and easiest difficulty. As thorough as your explanation was, it didn't really address some of the discussion that has already taken place regarding other possibilities. I don't know if you had time to read the whole thread, but I would encourage you to do so and at least consider the responses if you haven't already.

You should also know that some of your post doesn't apply to the NES version. I'm not familiar enough with the remakes to know all of the differences. But there is no personality system in this version. There is only one Zen Book, or Book of Satori, not two. Zoma has a high resistance to fire spells, so Blazemore and Blazemost are generally not effective strategies. I'm sure there's no way to sell more than one Dream Ruby (I'm not sure if you can even sell the one that you do get). And Prayer Rings (Wizard Rings on NES) are only for sale for a very limited time in the game. Most players will miss the shop without a guide. (Not that you really need a whole lot...most dungeons won't exhaust your MP so far that you need more than one or two Wizard Rings in my opinion).
(edited 2 weeks ago)

User Info: Darknight97

Darknight97
2 weeks ago#70
Pre_PHD_Lee posted...
Darknight97, you have some good points, some of which have may already been addressed in this thread. Your recommended party is a very effective one, and I doubt many people would claim otherwise. (It is one that I plan to use on future replays). I'm don't think it's true that a wizard is widely considered bad. I personally think they're one of the best classes.

The original post specifically mentioned the parameters of least grinding and easiest difficulty. As thorough as your explanation was, it didn't really address some of the discussion that has already taken place regarding other possibilities. I don't know if you had time to read the whole thread, but I would encourage you to do so and at least consider the responses if you haven't already.

You should also know that some of your post doesn't apply to the NES version. I'm not familiar enough with the remakes to know all of the differences. But there is no personality system in this version. There is only one Zen Book, or Book of Satori, not two. Zoma has a high resistance to fire spells, so Blazemore and Blazemost are generally not effective strategies. I'm sure there's no way to sell more than one Dream Ruby (I'm not sure if you can even sell the one that you do get). And Prayer Rings (Wizard Rings on NES) are only for sale for a very limited time in the game. Most players will miss the shop without a guide. (Not that you really need a whole lot...most dungeons won't exhaust your MP so far that you need more than one or two Wizard Rings in my opinion).


In the NES version bosses regen hp and tend to have lower hp stat due to the regen and zoma's resistances are still the same. even then the mage can transform and gain either the priest's,sage's or hero's spellset temporarily if offense spell casting isn't favourable. stats will be constant since presonalities are absent. This is a double edged sword but seeds exists and you get quite a few of them.

Most players will probably use a guide anyway since dq 3 is somewhat vague but I understand that they can miss buying the prayer rings tho. Robmagic exists so from the right enemy mages can restore their mp and almost every dungeon has an enemy that you can steal mp from. you get it a bit late so having the prayer ring does increase reliability since it helps not only your mage but also your priest, hero or sage to keep their mp up.

Dream ruby is an example, sell whatever you don't need and buy a few of them. The more prayer rings you have the more freely you can cast spells. sure prayer rings are limited but you can still buy them until you exchange it for the sailor's bone so you need to buy around 10 to 15 rings and your mp issues are mostly gone throughout the game. It's more efficient than say buying shields of strength since your priest can freely keep your party's hp to full health until you gets the sage's stone without worrying abt conservimg your mp.

Since spells do constant damage and roughly the same damage as your physical attacker in most cases, you don't need to grind as much as most parties in my opinion if you are wise with the spell casting and like you said you don't need prayer rings unless you are in a dungeon. infact you can go do the dungeon where you get the thief key for example without grinding at all, since there's an inn unless there's no inn there in the nes version.

You are going to grind near kazave anyway since the game's difficulty increases there either for those cloaks of evasion in Noaniels or better equipment for your fighters, heroes or soldiers at Kazave, so your mages might have the increase spell there.

Mages get increase, even if you don't get firebane or the cloaks of evasion you can cast it if you feel that the enemies hit harder and your equipment is lacking like say near Ashalam.
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