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User Info: Pre_PHD_Lee

Pre_PHD_Lee
1 month ago#51
I saw this here and had to weigh in, because I recently completed a run of this game with a Hero and 3 Fighters.

I used this party last year for a no-magic challenge run. However, I discovered with some irony that with this party, my "challenge" run was in most cases easier than playing the default party with no restrictions. And I can only imagine how much easier it would have been without the no-magic restriction.

It starts a little slow until you can afford claws and a cloak of evasion for each fighter, but after that, this party shreds nearly everything that it comes across.

You have little need for buffs or healing because most monsters die before they can attack. In most dungeons, medical herbs are more than enough to mitigate the damage you take (don't forget you can carry more of them because a fighter uses less equipment).

Despite what has been suggested here, Fighters actually have very good defence due to their high agility score, despite their armor options. And although they are vulnerable to powerful breath attacks late game, multiple Shields of Strength mitigate this well (and by late game they are easy to afford because this group doesn't spend much gold).

The group's high attack power absolutely destroys the bosses, especially with the added critical hits. I beat every one on the first try, without any real struggle. Because critical hits are random, there's surely some variability here. But I can say confidently that you don't really need Bikill with three Fighters.

The only place I really struggled was the Necrogond cave. But I still did it with no healing magic or offensive spells. I don't think it would be too hard without restrictions.

A sage is very versatile and useful but also takes quite a long time to level up. I believe the three-fighter party probably fits the original post's conditions better than any other party.

User Info: spadesZero

spadesZero
1 month ago#52
As the original poster, I concur with you. I'll have to give this a shot, but having recently beat the game with my suggested party, the napkin math is in your favor.

Once you get 3 cloaks and 3 sets of iron claws, you would start destroying everything and you wouldn't stop. Necrogond presents a challenge, but I'd argue Necrogond presents a challenge for any party.

User Info: the_quickness

the_quickness
3 weeks ago#53
Yeah, having done the 3 fighters thing like in my old post, I was pleased. It just worked. It was easy.

Only the Necrogond required grinding, but even so, I got through that, Baramos, and even the rest of the game a couple levels lower than my standard-ish parties, and I didn't have to class change, so there was no re-training time.

I'm going to try to get a Hero-less beginner set up going on, but to do so I'll have to basically beat the game and never save after I form my initial party. I'll have to dump one person behind as a Merchant in order to get the Yellow Orb, though. They don't have to start out as a Merchant, they can class change, which is fine, but that means I'll have to think about how to get through the game with 3 people.

I'm thinking Hero, Soldier, Sage, but I'm not set on that.

Then after that, I beat the game, reset, and I can have my level 1 party kick the Hero out... I'm wondering what kind of No Hero set up would be great.
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, if you don't take it out and use it, it's going to rust. - best line from Highlander 2

User Info: Pre_PHD_Lee

Pre_PHD_Lee
3 weeks ago#54
The_quickness, be forewarned. I think there was someone a while back on these boards tho tried to create a Hero-less game doing what you're doing. He said that even though he never saved or changed his party from the beginning, the game apparently recorded a save automatically when he left his merchant at New Town. He was confident he never did anything else to record a save, but when he started it up after beating the game he was at the point of having a ship. So it may well not be possible to go Hero-less earlier than that.

Even so, perhaps you could play with your beginners up to that point with the Hero dead, then pause the quest to do the rest without saving, then resume with one more beginner, although this could greatly increase the difficulty of the early game.

User Info: jsmith42

jsmith42
3 weeks ago#55
Roundman posted...
I also tend to use Hero-Soldier-Fighter-Pilgrim (later upgraded to Sage). This party has good variety, is not overly dependent on MP, and is very resilient. Give the Soldier the Meteorite Armband to mitigate his speed problem.

If you really want two Bikill casters, then I recommend starting with Hero-Soldier-Pilgrim-Wizard, then class changing the Wizard to a Fighter after the Wizard learns Bikill. Fighters are relatively lower quality party members early in the game than late in the game, so starting the Fighter off as a Wizard isn't much of a hit to early game party quality.


I hear you about the soldier's speed issue, but have you seen the defensive stat boost the armband gives a fighter? I think it's worth equipping to the fighter even if your soldier goes last every time.

User Info: Darkwing Duck

Darkwing Duck
3 weeks ago#56
When I did my two character runs last year, soldier was actually one of the worst partners to hero. Fighter and sage were great.

Hero plus hero was also fairly good. Need some hacks to do that, however.

One of the bigger problems with soldier is that the character has extremely low luck, so practically everything works against him/her. So chaos and limbo are pretty devastating against Baramos.

Never did do non-hero parties. May want to in the future.
Let's get Dangerous.

User Info: Roysgonnabeatu

Roysgonnabeatu
2 weeks ago#57
I always made the fighter into a sage after using golden claw to help defeat boss troll in Samanao.
Imo fighter gear isnt up to the task anymore, and pilgrims can equip some pretty strong gear. This way you get a faster/stronger magic user, 2 healers(3 if u count hero) and dont waste all the time youve already spent leveling up your pilgrim. It seems inefficient to do pilgrim as you already know half the spells you learn as sage.

User Info: Roundman

Roundman
5 days ago#58
Pre_PHD_Lee posted...
I saw this here and had to weigh in, because I recently completed a run of this game with a Hero and 3 Fighters.

I used this party last year for a no-magic challenge run. However, I discovered with some irony that with this party, my "challenge" run was in most cases easier than playing the default party with no restrictions. And I can only imagine how much easier it would have been without the no-magic restriction.


I was bored this afternoon, so I thought I'd give this party a shot. It is living up to its hype so far. The key factor is that your fighters almost always have their turn before any of the enemies. It's like having a surprise attack every battle. This effect is made even more pronounced by giving the Meteorite Armband to the Hero, as that makes it so your entire party usually has its turn before any enemy act.

I haven't had to do much grinding to this point. I was able to survive the Tower of Najima at level 1, so I grinded a few quick levels in the Tower by making use of the Inn. I made it to Romaly by level 7. My characters were underpowered at this point, so I had to grind for gold around Romaly and Kanave for a bit until I could afford a Broad Sword for the Hero and Iron Claws for my three fighters. After that, I breezed past Assaram and Isis, and I was able to grab the Magic Key at level 11 without much of a problem. I was then able to walk to Muor at level 13. These are 3-5 levels lower than my party usually is to tackle these areas, so I am quite impressed. And it's not like I'm constantly running to survive- this party can comfortably hold its own at these lower levels. The fighters all carry 3 or 4 Herbs. They take care of healing in battle since they almost always go first, and the Hero heals outside of battle with magic.

The party is not perfect, as it is lacking in the offensive magic department. I routinely had to run from groups of Infernus Crabs, and I was almost wiped out by a group of Sea Slimes near Muor. The defense of the fighters lags behind that of the Hero. I haven't yet tried a boss fight (I skipped Kandar 1, and I'm waiting to take on Kandar 2 until I have all fighters equipped with Cloaks of Evasion). I wonder whether the relative effectiveness of the group will decline as the Iron Claws +30 becomes relatively less powerful. But for the early game, this team is an absolute beast.

User Info: Pre_PHD_Lee

Pre_PHD_Lee
4 days ago#59
I always made the fighter into a sage after using golden claw to help defeat boss troll in Samanao.
Imo fighter gear isnt up to the task anymore, and pilgrims can equip some pretty strong gear. This way you get a faster/stronger magic user, 2 healers(3 if u count hero) and dont waste all the time youve already spent leveling up your pilgrim. It seems inefficient to do pilgrim as you already know half the spells you learn as sage.


Even with their weak equipment, I believe Fighters still have higher Attack and Defense Power than any class except the Soldier and the Hero, because their Strength and Agility are so high. And it's not much lower than those two classes, so their speed and critical hit rate end up more than making up the difference there.

Roundman posted...
The party is not perfect, as it is lacking in the offensive magic department. I routinely had to run from groups of Infernus Crabs, and I was almost wiped out by a group of Sea Slimes near Muor.


This made me laugh, because it reminded me how I stubbornly saw through most of the Infernus Crab fights to the end anyway. Because the Fighters have a higher critical hit rate, most of the time I was able to pull it off if I stuck it out for a while. Those two groups are among the only ones this party will struggle with, and they are only in short parts of the game. (Another one that hurts is the Frost Clouds in the Necrogond.)

User Info: spadesZero

spadesZero
4 days ago#60
Yeah, there seem to be a few encounters in the game that were designed for offensive magic users (infernus crabs, etc), but I'd argue that you can just run from those.

I'd also argue that maybe you wouldn't have had a problem with the sea slimes if you weren't underleveled. :)
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