You're browsing the GameFAQs Message Boards as a guest. Sign Up for free (or Log In if you already have an account) to be able to post messages, change how messages are displayed, and view media in posts.
  1. Boards
  2. NetHack
  3. Linley's Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup

User Info: crate3333

crate3333
7 years ago#31
Throwing stuff like daggers and axes is purely based on the Throwing skill. As far as Throwing goes, javelins are the best. Hand axes do more damage than spears, which in turn do more damage than clubs or daggers, but you also generally lose accuracy as you go up in damage. Spears probably give you the best balance of damage and accuracy of the thrown equippables.

Unless you find a hand axe of returning though it's generally best to just stick to blowguns, stones, darts, and javelins for throwing. The equippables weigh too much and take up too many item slots to be worth using as throwing weapons.

If you want a ranged weapon that'll be useful throughout the game you have to choose a skill and train it, just like with melee weapons or spells. All of the options have their own merits. Slings are the clear choice for shield-users since they're not slowed down by wearing a shield. Bows have more plentiful ammunition (and weaponry) than crossbows and fire faster. Crossbows hit the hardest and are very accurate but are slower and, especially early on, you rely on the RNG for ammo. Throwing gives you utility with blowguns and throwing nets, but generally less damage than the other options.

You can also get through the game fine without training up a ranged attack if you don't want to do so. Wands or spells or gods can cover ranged firepower for cases where you really want some (like when you find a hydra).
The only opinion one should care about is one's own.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No.

User Info: sephka2

sephka2
7 years ago#32
Hmm, I just don't like using ammunition that has a chance of being destroyed. I've yet to have a problem with encumbrance, so I'll probably stick to daggers. Once I end up with a dozen or so, I'll drop any that aren't runed etc.

Speaking of which, I notice runed weapons don't add their special properties (freezing, vampiric etc.) when thrown. I assume they still use the weapon's enchantment for both accuracy and damage, though?

Also got some questions on identifying things. Is there an easy way to identify cursed items without worshipping the right god or using a scroll, or do I just have to try things on otherwise (with plenty of remove curse scrolls handy)?

What should I be using my identify scrolls on? Is there any chance of getting a full-inventory ID like in Nethack, or should I just be using them right away? I've generally been using them to ID things that don't do anything obvious when use-tested, though obviously some things are dangerous to use-test.

As a Monk, how should I treat armour? Is sticking with the robe a viable option for most of the game, or should I switch to heavier armour at some point? The limit on enchanting seems like it's going to become an issue later on. Also, once my robe is at +2, is there any point trying on non-glowing robes?

Finally, with both weapons and armour, is it possible to win with fully enchanted starting equipment? Can I take a plain old +9 +9 quarterstaff through Zot, or do I really need some kind of artifact? I suspect I'd be really unlucky not to find at least one runed item for each category, and artifacts may be common enough to get one quite reliably, but is it serious if I don't get one?

Sorry for so many questions.

User Info: crate3333

crate3333
7 years ago#33
sephka2 posted...
Hmm, I just don't like using ammunition that has a chance of being destroyed. I've yet to have a problem with encumbrance, so I'll probably stick to daggers. Once I end up with a dozen or so, I'll drop any that aren't runed etc.

Encumbrance isn't usually a big problem for most classes unless you're lugging around way too much stuff. Being limited to 52 item slots may be. I believe stones deal as much damage as unenchanted daggers and darts deal more, by the way.

I've never actually run out of stuff to throw or shoot on classes where I've used ranged weapons. As long as you're not burning up your ammo on popcorn monsters you're probably fine. If you need more ammo, Okawaru often provides gifts of ammo and is useful for combat-oriented characters anyway.

Speaking of which, I notice runed weapons don't add their special properties (freezing, vampiric etc.) when thrown. I assume they still use the weapon's enchantment for both accuracy and damage, though?

I believe so.

Also got some questions on identifying things. Is there an easy way to identify cursed items without worshipping the right god or using a scroll, or do I just have to try things on otherwise (with plenty of remove curse scrolls handy)?

Scrolls of detect curse or Ashenzari are your only options here.

What should I be using my identify scrolls on? Is there any chance of getting a full-inventory ID like in Nethack, or should I just be using them right away? I've generally been using them to ID things that don't do anything obvious when use-tested, though obviously some things are dangerous to use-test.

You should use-test everything you can to save scrolls. Generally I ID mainly jewelry--you should still try it on first if it's uncursed though since a fair amount of it auto-IDs. If you have some awesome mutations and have yet to find the cure mutation potion it's also well worth ID'ing potions. If you find a wand of healing or hasting, you should definitely ID it to see how many uses you have left.

In general in Crawl you have lots of consumables at your disposal. You should use them reasonably liberally. This includes ID scrolls: you'll likely have more than you really need.

ID scrolls usually ID 1 item, may ID 2, and rarely ID 3.

(more below)
The only opinion one should care about is one's own.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No.

User Info: crate3333

crate3333
7 years ago#34
As a Monk, how should I treat armour? Is sticking with the robe a viable option for most of the game, or should I switch to heavier armour at some point? The limit on enchanting seems like it's going to become an issue later on. Also, once my robe is at +2, is there any point trying on non-glowing robes?

If you're sticking with unarmed combat, you most likely want to stay with a robe. Heavier armor has significant speed penalties to unarmed combat until you pour tons of XP into your Armour skill. If you plan on using any other weapon, it's up to you. Assuming equal dodging and armour aptitudes, heavier armor tends to offer more survivability (but not by a huge margin) but it also significantly hurts your spellcasting. If you're a class with a poor armour aptitude but good dodging, stick to robes. (If you're a class with poor dodging but good armour you should pick up heavy armor, but that doesn't apply to the recommended races for monks.) Heavier armor also hurts your combat--but not as severely as it would unarmed combat--until you get an armour skill level that's high enough.

If you have a +2 robe, no, there's no point trying on other robes that aren't glowing or runed or such.

Finally, with both weapons and armour, is it possible to win with fully enchanted starting equipment? Can I take a plain old +9 +9 quarterstaff through Zot, or do I really need some kind of artifact? I suspect I'd be really unlucky not to find at least one runed item for each category, and artifacts may be common enough to get one quite reliably, but is it serious if I don't get one?

A non-branded quarterstaff, no, that's not so great. A non-branded but highly enchanted lajatang (the other staff-class weapon in the game) can do it though. And you're quite likely to find at least one scroll of vorpalize weapon to use on your highly-enchanted weapon-of-choice. Generally my wins that involved meleeing have had the most-damaging (or close) weapon of the weapon class I've chosen that fits with my equipment (so lajatangs for staves, or a broad axe for a shield-wearing axe-user, or a demon/blessed blade for a long sword + shield), always with a brand (vorpalize weapon or god-gifted brand or a lucky find), and usually enchanted to about +5/+5 (my other enchant weapon scrolls tend to go to a ranged weapon if I have one, or to a secondary weapon with a different brand, since they usually fail at high enchantment).

Finding a good artifact weapon that's worth using is pretty rare for physical attackers, particularly since their enchantment is fixed upon creation. Spellcasters can often equip an artifact just for the resistances and such that it provides and thus are much more likely to find a useful one: huge negative enchantments or the wrong weapon class don't matter to them.
The only opinion one should care about is one's own.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No.

User Info: sephka2

sephka2
7 years ago#35
Got to D8 again, got killed by a yellow wasp. At least I didn't disturb Eustachio this time. I'm still having nightmares from the first time I met him. Incidentally, at lower levels I seem to be having more problems with Grinder than Sigmund. Ranged attacks and blinking don't go well together on enemies.

Some more questions:

Is there a limit on how often a wand can be recharged, like in Nethack, or is it only limited by how many scrolls you find?

Do all rings and amulets carry a small hunger penalty, or is it only the ones that specify as much in the description? (regeneration, active invisibility, etc.)

When I manage to make it to the Orc mines, should I try to do them straight away, or come back much later?

Thanks for all the help!

User Info: crate3333

crate3333
7 years ago#36
sephka2 posted...
Got to D8 again, got killed by a yellow wasp. At least I didn't disturb Eustachio this time. I'm still having nightmares from the first time I met him. Incidentally, at lower levels I seem to be having more problems with Grinder than Sigmund. Ranged attacks and blinking don't go well together on enemies.

I'm inclined to agree. Sigmund doesn't have paralysis and isn't resistant to basically every spell (especially poison, since poison spells are otherwise the swiss-army-knife of early game combat solutions). But Grinder doesn't (yet) have the same stigma because his current incarnation is new to 0.8 while Sigmund's been around at least since I started playing.

Incidentally yellow wasps without poison resistance are very scary, as I'm sure you found out.

Is there a limit on how often a wand can be recharged, like in Nethack, or is it only limited by how many scrolls you find?

I believe it's limited only by scrolls.

Do all rings and amulets carry a small hunger penalty, or is it only the ones that specify as much in the description? (regeneration, active invisibility, etc.)

Only the ones that say so.

When I manage to make it to the Orc mines, should I try to do them straight away, or come back much later?

Depends on your character, but mostly no. If you have some good crowd-control techniques (especially evaporate plus poison resistance) or are exceptionally bashy (something like a Troll Berserker) you can venture in and see how it looks, but if you do jump in you only get one chance to back out safely in most cases, because you will shortly be surrounded on the stairs.

I basically always leave it for later in recent versions. The risk is high because you will be fighting large numbers the whole time, and now the tough orcs are more common--and they are big trouble indeed. Add to that that the main benefit to the mines is gold and orc kills, which you're unlikely to have an immediate use for, and the reward just isn't worth it in most cases. If orc priests, orc wizards, or orc warriors are still threatening, don't go in. Don't even think about it if you find regular orcs scary. Transmuters can usually at least peek around, as could most berserkers.

The lair, on the other hand, is usually comparable in difficulty to the dungeon near where you find it. Spiny frogs are probably the biggest threat because they hit hard and are faster than you (unless you're a centuar or spriggan), and yaks and hydras are very dangerous if you let them get close, but most bashy classes will be bashy enough to take out the frogs and yaks and most casters should have a solution to all three by that time. Hybrids tend to have more trouble but it's still worth poking around almost all the time.
The only opinion one should care about is one's own.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No.

User Info: Primus_Ultimas

Primus_Ultimas
7 years ago#37
Decided to try something a little different since you said AC isn't so sucky anymore. Took a mountaind dwarf berzerker just to see how good armor is now. Found plate mail AND a +5 ring of protection on D:2, a dwarven winged helm, an uncursed ammy of rage, and many scrolls of enchant weapon/armor - about six total (for me, thats a lot!) D:4 and no temple, but I did get to clean out an ossuary relatively easy. I had to berzerk a couple times, but so far that's my first. No temple isn't a bad thing considering zerks are married to trog, but I usually use it to measure my progress for now.

I'm pretty happy with AC 20 at XL 7 on D:4
veritas primus et ultimas propheta
If you want to know, just ask. My listed email is dead

User Info: Primus_Ultimas

Primus_Ultimas
7 years ago#38
UPDATE: XL 10 on D:10. Finally found temple and Orc branch, but I didn't investigate. This feels so far like my best game yet, I didn't want to screw it up. AC is up to ~24, swapped +1 ring of dex for some sort of resistance. Mutagenic meat from I think it was called a 'sky beast' have given me acute eyesight, +10% HP, and perpetual grumpiness.

I did have a nervous moment though. When I first found the orcish mines I forgot that the entrance was more or less guarded by the equivalent of a temple to Beough complete with priests and warriors. I never was in any danger because the few times they managed to draw blood it was only a couple points here and there. I was literally cornered in by about 15 orcs and trying to fight them off when suddenly Trog hands me Bloody Death, my new favorite battleax. I then proceded to rage and wipe the floor with those puny orcs! Maybe I SHOULD do orc mines now......

Fighting 10, axes 15, armor 8. Theres a couple ranks in a couple other random skills, but that's because I picked them up fresh, but I have them turned off for now. Heading back in. Wish me continued luck!

EDIT:
And here I am bruised and beaten. I was methodically searching each floor and being super cautious by luring the orcs upstairs a couple at a time when out of nowhere something hit me for like 60 damage. A couple turns later I was being smitten by Saint Something-or-other and dead before I could respond. Healing potions wouldn't work fast enough, so I was getting ready to have Trog throw everything we had against them (BiA, then Trogs hand, then some brooklyn RAAAAAGE) but I didn't realize enemies could act before you on your own turn, so I died before I could see the bloody asplosions.

Oh well, nearly 10K points is my best score so far in any of the three roguelikes I seriously play
veritas primus et ultimas propheta
If you want to know, just ask. My listed email is dead
(edited 7 years ago)

User Info: crate3333

crate3333
7 years ago#39
I have another SENm going now. This one has a +7/+8 lajatang of pain. It started as a +6/+6 (!) lajatang of electrocution that I asked Kiku to improve. I also have a +5 ring of protection and 2 levels of cold resistance and 1 of fire resistance from my equipment.

Notable events: Found a few different portals: a sewer, which was pretty simple; a tomb, which was ridiculously easy because of Dispel Undead; a bailey, which was easy enough because it contained outdated orcs by the time I found it; and an ice cave, where I lucked out and faced mainly simulacra. The ice cave was nice because I got some books of ice spells.

D: 15 was a real event when I entered, because I got the Vault entrance surrounded by guards, and I happened to enter in the middle of that chaos. Donald, Norris, Rupert, and Maud were all there to join in! Thankfully I had about sixteen Abominations to help me fight off the mess of enemies, so I was never really in any danger. I did lose a few abominations though.

I also encounted a fake Guardian Serpent vault. The mimics inside killed off my entire complement of Abominations at the time with their poison.

Oh, and Louise sent me into the Abyss when I found her. I'd recently lost a character in there to horrible luck in finding an exit and the enemies eventually overwhelming me. In addition, while this SENm was very strong, pain brands and dispel undead are both mostly useless in the Abyss. So I was feeling kinda dejected at that point.

However ... I happened upon an Abyssal Rune while hunting for an exit! I think this is only the third time I've found one of those. Certainly I remember two victories where I got a rune there (an all-rune Minotaur victory, and a lucky find on a Merfolk win) and I don't remember seeing the rune at all else. Not long afterward I found an exit, and in fact this was one of the least-eventful Abyss trips I've had apart from the rune. No dangerous enemies and I didn't have to use any teleports. Uneventful is generally a good thing in Crawl.

I cleared out Snake without any serious difficulty as well, assembling a new group of Abominations on my way down. Snake: 3 held both Aizul and Azrael, but my horde of abominations and my lajatang made short work of them. Snake: 5 got momentarily hairy in the rune vault, but I warped out to recover and picked off the nagas one-by-one to finish up. Most of my abominations again died off, but I claimed my second rune.

Currently I've just cleared out the Orcish Mines, which I left alone precisely to restock on Abominations if I needed any. So I now have nearly two dozen of them following me around again. I don't have a good answer to nonliving enemies other than to surround them with X's, but between my lajatang and Dispel Undead I should be able to take care of mostly anything else. I think my next order of business is to take my new group of abominations into the Vaults, and then clear out the Crypt on my own. I'm very much hoping for some poison resistance so I can tackle Swamp soon.
The only opinion one should care about is one's own.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No.

User Info: Primus_Ultimas

Primus_Ultimas
7 years ago#40
When you say sewers, are you talking about the pools of green water with a grating in the middle? I come across those often enough, but I never knew you could actually get in them. How does that work? I don't think I seen anything about them in what little spoiler info I could find.
veritas primus et ultimas propheta
If you want to know, just ask. My listed email is dead
  1. Boards
  2. NetHack
  3. Linley's Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup