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  3. What the heck does Bud actually do?!

User Info: FIRESEAL

FIRESEAL
3 months ago#1
So I started a new game, using a funky team of Spar/Sten/Bow. Just started using Bud with Spar and I noticed something I never noticed before that doesn't seem to be listed in any Guide/Walkthrough/FAQ. Spar, after Bud, went first. My first assumption was that maybe Bud attacks with priority, but after further testing the Ganet enemy still went first after a Bud.

Then I gave Sten enough Vigor to go 1 below Spar's Vigor x 2. Spar still first after Bud, as expected. Then I gave him enough to put him over that, at 9 above Spar's Vigor x 2 (Yea I didn't go exact, but meh I'm lazy). And boom, as I expected, Sten moved first. Bud doesn't just double Attack, it also doubles Vigor. I assume Vigor is still capped at 511 but haven't actually tested. This is very strange since the normal Vigor up spell doesn't actually do anything.

Then I figured this must all be too good to be true. So I did another test, hit Spar with my own non-elemental weapon before and after Bud. Double damage. Ok. So is Defense halved? Or is damage simply doubled? Did it again with a weapon that was well below Spar's current Defense, first damage 1. After Bud: 55 damage. So Bud also halves Defense. Next Test: Have Spar smacked before and after Bud by an enemy (To make sure we aren't running into a funky bug involving hitting your own party): 135 damage from Bighand. And 116. Spar went back to her good old form so the test ended there, but normal damage was more like 80. As expected.

After Bud ends, defense does return to normal (that was the final test). I'm surprised this isn't mentioned in every FAQ as it's pretty obvious considering the huge differences in damage taken (as well as order in the move list). I am even more surprised that I never noticed this, since it's been like the 4th run or so with Seed Spar. As a kid without internet I never found Soso, so I have limited experience with Spar's Seed form, but still... I should've noticed this on the 1st run, not the 4th...

But yea... a lot of stuff about this game is still pretty obscure and not documented 25 years after release. Like the Seny secret where you can actually get her before the Church. I would say that this does make Spar... uhh... a bit worse. The speed is nice but the defense drop is deadly. Not recommended vs Barubary lol.

User Info: Fiop

Fiop
3 months ago#2
That’s interesting. Thanks for sharing. It’s probably because you get the Earth shaman so late and Spar isn’t too popular in the first place that a lot of people haven’t experimented much with Bud.
"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude." - 1 Cor 13:4-5
(edited 3 months ago)

User Info: praetarius3

praetarius3
3 months ago#3
FIRESEAL posted...
So I started a new game, using a funky team of Spar/Sten/Bow. Just started using Bud with Spar and I noticed something I never noticed before that doesn't seem to be listed in any Guide/Walkthrough/FAQ. Spar, after Bud, went first. My first assumption was that maybe Bud attacks with priority, but after further testing the Ganet enemy still went first after a Bud.

From what I've seen this game has no priority attacks, it orders all combatants strictly by their vigor stat at the start of the round after you've chosen your actions.
It is just that monster are generated with a random +[0..7] to their stat at the start of battle and this bonus is lost when they receive any (de)buff.

User Info: FIRESEAL

FIRESEAL
3 months ago#4
Well, you never know. I thought doubling Vigor was such a simple thing that it would've been mentioned in any FAQ regarding mechanics. But yes, thus far no attack has priority and move order is determined by Vigor.

User Info: praetarius3

praetarius3
3 months ago#5
Also one more little thing bud does:
the attack buff isn't a regular doubling of the stat.
It is more like a special version of the regular attack that uses the double of the attack stat.

Why does that difference matter?
Normal attack buffs are capped at 511, the increase from bud is not.

If you want to counter the def loss of bud form def and def-x are separate effects that should stack.

User Info: FIRESEAL

FIRESEAL
3 months ago#6
Yes, that is the entire point of TwinBW, Keep and Bud. You can double damage without the cap messing it up. That is an effect that is mentioned everywhere, so I figured I didn't need to mention. Pwr up also doubles attack, but to a max of 511. Meaning it truly does double Spar's attack unless you went crazy with PwrFood while doing very little to nothing for a character like Katt.
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