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  3. Elnard vs. 7th Saga

User Info: valath

valath
13 years ago#1
So, having finally beat the role playing monstrosity known as 7th Saga (and being disappointed with the rather anti-climatic ending) I decided to play the game in Japanese having a working knowledge of the language and hearing that it was easier. I was surprised to find out that this is actually completely true - the Japanese version of the game is a cake walk, especially after playing the American version. As you may know, the level ups are much, much more generous right from the start even. I have been using a team of Esuna and Olvan and having absolutely no problems - I just acquired the Moon Rune at level 23 with no problem. I wanted to compare my stats to my characters at the same level in the English version (Valsu and Kamil) so here's a run down.

Valsu - Level 23

HP 123
MP 99
Power 49
Guard 79
Magic 91
Speed 96

Kamil - Level 23

HP 131
MP 76
Power 77
Guard 75
Magic 79
Speed 83

Now my characters in the Japanese version

Esuna - Level 23

HP 167
MP 168
Power 61
Guard 72
Magic 111
Speed 109

Olvan - Level 23

HP 190
MP 61
Power 96
Guard 111
Magic 88
Speed 99

There's definitely a striking difference in the stats here. It's sort of exciting to gain like 6 or 7 in a stat when you're used to like 2-4. :) Right from the start, too, your characters gain a lot more HP. So here we have a rare case of a game during this era that was actually made harder for US audiences... fancy that. I still wish they had left Final Fantasy 4 alone, though. It makes me wonder why they would make this harder though... not notable enough of a game if it was easy? They definitely could have done it in a much more balanced way though...

Some other differences you probably have heard of are the fact that Wilme doesn't wear underwear (and neither do the fire giants you fight) On that note, too, many of the enemies have completely different experience and gold earned from defeating them. The most notable of these are the aforementioned Fire Giants and the Brain line of enemies. The names of many of the enemies are different, but this is probably just a function of character space rather than any deliberate change. It does kind of ruin the fun of guessing what the mysterious abbreviations are though. (You mean R. Demon is actually Red Demon and not Retro Demon? Aw. :()

I'm sure this isn't exactly new information to people on this board, but I'd just thought I'd put this out there.
natsugusaya tsuwamonodomoga yumenoato

User Info: stripedfox

stripedfox
13 years ago#2
Do you think you could do any sort of translation guide? I've been itching so badly to play Elnard, I like the graphics so much more over the US version. On top of that, I'm a veteran player who has gotten sick of the difficulty.

User Info: DragonAtma

DragonAtma
13 years ago#3
IIRC, levelups in Elnard are higher than 7th saga by int(level/10). That'd give Esuna, for example, and average of ~65 Power/Guard at level 23 and ~110 magic/speed (compared to ~47 and ~92 in 7th saga.

Unfortunately, CPU apprentices in 7th saga still have Elnard stats, which is why they're so difficult!
Nagas on a plane! ^_^

User Info: valath

valath
13 years ago#4
What do you mean by a translation guide? I can certainly translate all the item, spell, and town names into English and point at their 7th Saga equivalents. The ease of this depends on whether save states for the English version can be used in the Japanese version. (they probably can, but I should check on this.) It's not so much a problem to go through the game in the Japanese version, I'm almost done with the game and it's been barely 10 hours into it. (with lots of speeding up of course) The lack of power leveling makes the game go by quickly. Anyway, the answer is yes. Ha ha. Unless you want me to translate the dialogue, which is much more tedious and I would really rather not. (the translation actually isn't really that bad.)
natsugusaya tsuwamonodomoga yumenoato

User Info: stripedfox

stripedfox
13 years ago#5

The dialogue is niether here or there with me, I just want it to be playable. The item, town and spell names would be efficient for me. :)

I like the JP graphics and sound effects much better.

User Info: jskarzin

jskarzin
13 years ago#6
I've released a patch to correct the balance discrepancies; my patch transplants the growth rates and enemy statistics from Elnard into an otherwise unaltered copy of 7th Saga. You can find this patch and a more thorough write-up on my website:

http://members.shaw.ca/jskarzin

I have seen a large amount of positive feedback regarding the patch and unfortunately just one nayser (who failed to present conclusive data for me), so if you choose to make use of my patch, I would appreciate your making notes of any perceived or measurable difference in difficulty between my patched version and Elnard so that I can make any due further corrections for a future release.

I am long overdue since my last update on these forums, but I also wanted to let any interested board regulars know that I am back on the job with respect to my other 7th Saga patches. I've got a running PC again and thus I've picked up the slack and am back to work on my name entry case patch, allowing the entry of lowercase letters in the name entry process by depressing the R button. I will also be releasing an annotated explanation of the forthcoming patch to simplify the process of hacking SNES ROMs and wrangling with the 65c816 for any interested but inexperienced readers.

Upon the release of my patch to further enable name entry, I hope to expand on my balance patches by removing the arbitrary level limit in place now and placing it at the expected level 99, and to also make some headway on a simple editor for the game. Any technically apt readers who have gone the distance to note key locations of data within the 7th Saga (U) ROM who would like to provide me with their documentation would be greatly appreciated and credited in any future 7th Saga project.

I hope you enjoy my work and have criticisms/opinions/advice!

User Info: Krio Lv3

Krio Lv3
13 years ago#7
Wow, I played this game a long time ago, but I didn't know we got a harder version, sweet, Ill try your patched versions and see what it's like.
Metaknight- No, Kirby....I am your father....
Kirby- HIIII!
- SeiichiroAoki

User Info: zgoat17

zgoat17
13 years ago#8
I never checked, but I think everyone on this board who did check agreed that stat growth in Elnard accelerates; mimicking that could be a pain. I posted pretty much all I know about the ROM in the ROM Data Guide, hrm, almost 3 years ago. Jeez. After doing that, I had meant to go off and play with a debugger and learn all about ROMs and ASM and memory mapping, but I got distracted and never came back to it. I would at least watch with interest any hacking & patching that you do.
Man has given a false importance to death. Every animal, plant, or man that dies adds to nature's compost heap.

User Info: DragonAtma

DragonAtma
13 years ago#9
Eeeeeexccellent. </Burns>

Out of curiosity, how did you balance magic users? Lux and Wilme are (arguably) the worst spellcasters, and in vanilla 7th Saga they pratcically NEED a Heal 3 user to help them...
Nagas on a plane! ^_^

User Info: king_myste

king_myste
13 years ago#10
you know the demons in the first area? In japanese it's actually "little troll." Well, actually it's in katakana, so it's the japanese rendering of the english "little troll." I don't know any japanese, but I can read it, so I can at least romanize all the names of the enemies.
JDK band is the best band in existence.
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