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  2. Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord
  3. Can Mahaman's resurrect option turn characters to ash/fail to revive?

User Info: BareknuckleRoo

BareknuckleRoo
8 years ago#1
I just beat Wizardry on the PC version, had a really hard time with the game... until I discovered Haman and Mahaman are literally the best spells in the game.

I was playing around with the results after, and Haman seems to be the best for late game combats (Silence, Teleport and Augment are all useful against Greater Demons and you're guaranteed to get at least one of those as a choice with Haman). Mahaman's resurrection ability didn't seem so interesting when I realized it does NOT cast Di spells on everyone (or even Kadorto). Instead, it seems to revive everyone, living, dead or ashes, to full HP, and I've yet to see it fail and turn a dead person to ashes (or ashes to lost)!

Another thing I've noticed on both the PC and NES versions is that the level drain caused by casting Haman/Mahaman does NOT cause you to lose stats, max HP, etc. Normally, when you're hit by life drainers, losing levels causes your max HP to go down, but since you don't lose max HP from the life drain caused by Haman/Mahaman, you can use it to level up repeatedly from 12 to 13 and get more HP (since you always seem to get minimum +1 HP at level up). Although, it's probably more practical to just level normally, it's a nice bonus.

What I'm curious is this: can Mahaman's "Raise the Dead!" option ever fail to raise dead characters? If so, that would actually mean you never have to lose any characters (unless you have a full-party wipe which can cause items and characters to disappear) and you could keep a Mage in town at all times, getting guaranteed revives for the dead (have your Mage carry the bodies into an easy fight with a Murphy's ghost to cast Mahaman and revive). Better yet, use a Mage who learned Mahaman and changed classes to a Thief (since Thieves require the least exp to level up). If Mahaman fails to give the revive option, just kill whatever you're fighting and cart the bodies back to town and grind another level. Grinding from 12 to 13 on a thief is much less aggravating than losing a powerful character forever.

User Info: BareknuckleRoo

BareknuckleRoo
8 years ago#2
For reference, what Kevin Butler AKA War Doc's FAQ says (along with a few other guides) is wrong about the two spells. The actual results (applies to all versions including later SNES and WSC remakes as far as I'm aware) are as follows:

Haman selects 3 boons out of the following list at random and gives you to option to pick one of them.

* Augment Magic - Does NOT increase spell damage/healing. What it actually does is cause all spells cast for the remainder of the fight to ignore enemy magic resistance (you'll no longer see Maliktos or Tiltowaits fail against Greater Demons, etc). Not sure if it eliminates elemental resistances like enemies who specifically resist fire, poison.

* Cure Party - Removes all non-lethal status ailments from party (sleep, paralysis, poison, stone).

* Heal Party - All living characters restored to full health. To my knowledge, this does NOT cure non-lethal status ailments like a Madi spell would (War Doc's FAQ claims this casts Madi on everyone).

* Silence Enemies - All enemies are silenced, cannot be resisted (basically a guaranteed Montino against everyone).

* Teleport Enemies - All enemies are instantly killed, guaranteed. You get full exp, gold and treasure. Presumably they're teleported to their doom?

Mahaman is the same as Haman, picking 3 boons at random for you to choose which one you want, except the list includes two additional effects:

* Protect Party - Entire party's AC goes way way down, like -20 or something crazy. Not as helpful as it sounds, because Silence/Teleport Enemies are generally way more useful.

* Raise the Dead! - Unlike what the name implies, not only does this revive all Dead and Ashes characters, it also heals all living characters to full health (I think it may also remove non-lethal status ailments like paralysis, etc). I've never seen this effect turn Dead characters to Ashes or Ashes character to Lost ones, so if the spell doesn't have a 100% revival success rate, then it's still quite high.

Haman and Mahaman both require a minimum of level 13 to cast, otherwise the spell fails when cast. Also, despite some of the results being healing, they can only be cast in combat, so no using Mahaman to revive people outside of fights sadly.

User Info: BareknuckleRoo

BareknuckleRoo
8 years ago#3
Another unusual thing I've discovered recently about Haman/Mahaman is that in the original Apple II version, you did NOT get 3 choices to choose from. Instead, the effect you get is chosen totally at random from the list! Not sure if the whole list of effects has an equal chance or if certain ones like "Silences Monsters" have a higher chance of being selected. While the Resurrect and Protection effects appear to be in the game code (the former misspelled as 'ressurects'), I never saw them when casting Mahaman (or Haman for that matter), even after roughly 50 tries. The game may not try to resurrect if noone's dead, but I'm not sure why the protection one never appeared (I was running around with a bunch of naked mages).

Also, Teleports Monsters was originally called "Destroys Monsters" (which explains why you get all their exp/treasure). The cure party effect instead seems to simply say "Dialko's party 3 times", perhaps which members are cured are chosen at random (Dialko also doesn't cure stone)? Augment Magic was originally "Zaps monster magic resistance!", a far more accurate description.

There also seems to be a negative effect that can occur that says "but his spell books are mangled" after what ever beneficial effect you got (I saw "Dialko's party 3 times but his spell books are mangled"). It only appeared once and didn't seem to actually do anything to anyone's spellbooks/spell charges. After repeated castings of Mahaman for 10 minutes I couldn't get the effect to show up again.

Long story short, Haman and Mahaman in the original version of the game are kind of crap. Even if you had a couple Mages casting it against Werdna there's a chance they'd both get the same effect, essentially wasting it if it's something you don't need. The remakes make them much, much more powerful thanks to getting a choice of one of three effects.

yaytripleposting

User Info: DragonAtma

DragonAtma
8 years ago#4
It probably would still be Destroy Monsters, but NoA's censors wouldn't want a non-pope to have a god on speed-dial. >_>

Speaking of which, something to consider:

(1) Arithon reaches mage level 13 and learns Mahaman.
(2) Arithon classchanges to, well, anything except mage.
(3) Arithon fights his way to level 2.
(4) Solo Arithon fights a Murphy's Ghost.
(5) Arithon blows up Murphy's Ghost with Mahaman, going down to level 1.
(6) 4450 Exp? By Bahamut's* tail, Arithon has enough exp for a levelup!
(7) Arithon visits the inn and levels twice (or once if he's a ninja) for +2 HP!

Aaaand we loop back to (4) from here. Behold, LOTS of (somewhat slow) HP.



*No, seriously, why else would it be "Destroy Monsters" in the PC version? XD
Nagas on a plane! ^_^

User Info: orius

orius
8 years ago#5
You have to be at least level 13 to cast the spells though.
http://www.backloggery.com/orius

User Info: DragonAtma

DragonAtma
8 years ago#6
I somehow doubt it; just now I created the mage Arithon, leveled him to level 3 (learning Dilto), changed to Cleric, and he casts Dilto just fine despite being level 1.
Nagas on a plane! ^_^

User Info: BareknuckleRoo

BareknuckleRoo
8 years ago#7
I somehow doubt it; just now I created the mage Arithon, leveled him to level 3 (learning Dilto), changed to Cleric, and he casts Dilto just fine despite being level 1.

Haman and Mahaman are special in that your level essentially acts as a spell charge. As I said before, you need to be at least level 13 to cast it either one and get an effect (and a subsequent level drain).

Casting either one at level 12 or below gives you the message "the gods do not hear you" and you get no level drain. The level drain only takes place if you get a boon from casting it (which requires being level 13+).

To my knowledge, the other spells in the game are not affected by what level you are when you cast them.

User Info: DragonAtma

DragonAtma
8 years ago#8
Ah, well... guess we'll have to find something else to abuse.

...AHA! According to War Doc's faq, Greater Demons appear in groups of 1-6, and give 264,540 exp if you face the largest group solo. A level 12+ thief (who presumably spent enough levels as a mage to learn mahaman, or at least haman) needs only 260,639 experience to level up! So it's still workable, only very awkward and luck-based...
Nagas on a plane! ^_^

User Info: BareknuckleRoo

BareknuckleRoo
8 years ago#9
I always find that looking for specific enemies (those yummy exp filled Will 'o Wisps, etc) is stupidly difficult. It'd probably be easier to just stick it out and grind against Murphy's Ghosts (solo it should take 29 kills for a Thief to get the exp needed to go from 12 to 13). With a little luck with Zilwans and Tiltowaits it wouldn't be too bad, although you would age slightly from having to recharge spells (unless you're playing the DOS Wizardry Archives versions where spell charges are recovered when you exit the Maze, no Inn required).

If you manage to snag a Soul Slayer you could also probably carve up Murphy's Ghosts as a thief pretty easily after casting Mamorlis a few times in a row.

My question now is, what would happen if you spent a long time doing that so that your HP was WAY higher than what it should be at level 12 and you got hit with a level drain? Does being level drained just shave off X amount of HP or does it recalculate your HP for your 'expected' value (as in you'd go down to the amount you'd have at level 12)? If it's the latter, HP grinding this way and then getting drained would SUCK. :|
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