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User Info: Vivi0198

Vivi0198
1 year ago#13
Gerhalt C tier? The f***?

Gerhalt is right there with Peter and Slade as being the strongest characters in the game. Hell better than Slade because you don't have to f*** around with the Mithril weapon.

f*** the horses and their weak ass attack. And Zynk and Claude are two of the strongest characters if you promote at 20 most definitely not E tier. You get 2 Pimentos and a running ring their lackluster movement is easily fixed.

The best Force looks like this....

Bowie
Slade
Peter
Gerhalt (running ring)
Kazin (Sorcerer)
Karna (Vicar; f*** MM)
Claude (pimento)
Zynk (pimento)
May
Frayja

The last two are a toss us up. You can have a s***ty flying horse or one of the useless dwarfs. I'd take a s***ty flying horse over the dwarfs. It has more use. Plus Rick (the best flying horse, I'll fight you over this) will have more HP and DEF end game than the s***ty dwarfs usually.

As for the final spot you can include another healer (but never a MM) which is beyond overkill or Tyrin, Chaz or stone girl..
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(edited 1 year ago)

User Info: Elrick75

Elrick75
1 year ago#14
Vivi0198 posted...
f*** the horses and their weak ass attack. And Zynk and Claude are two of the strongest characters if you promote at 20 most definitely not E tier. You get 2 Pimentos and a running ring their lackluster movement is easily fixed.

Or you could give those pimentos to better characters who have low but not abysmal movement speed to get them to good movement instead of just upgrading these two from abysmal to low. The tier list has several problems but I don't think them being this low is one of them if you look at it objectively. If I wanted to use Zync or Claude I would probably use both pimentos on one of them and drop the other or 1 pimento and a ring. Whatever floats your boat though. Use what you want. The game is easy enough.
My top 10: Phantasy Star IV, Shining Force II, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy Tactics, Monster Rancher, FFVI, FE:A, ToG f, Tactics Ogre:LUCT, Breath of Fire II

User Info: MegalaserLAWS

MegalaserLAWS
1 year ago#15
I thought you were hard on wizard tyrin and gerhalt. They should both be up one rank. Yeah you get bolt from slade and Bowie but they can hardly use it. Tyrin can just spam that stuff and spamming that spell alone is too strong to ignore and yes I still think this even when you probably pick karma first. Gerhalt has too many stats, pre promotion access, and no gear reliance to be an average character.

User Info: Lastjustice

Lastjustice
1 year ago#16
I strongly disagree with your rating for Tyrin. You are basing things purely for doing things one way and their finished products. I prefer to take Tyrin at creeds since he needs more time to unlock his better spells, and you can score the second vigor ball by the time you get Karna. (I refuse to make Vicars instead of mastermonks.) Karna catches up more than fast enough. It's silly they make you choose from between getting a second healer or mage. (Unlike part 1 where you have 3 mages and healers by midgame.) It basically makes the other two characters pointless as you are knee deep in melee characters even if they are among the better characters for their respective class.

Getting Tyrin so late greatly discounts his usefulness. Unlike Randol and Eric, who just need a strong weapon to catch up quickly he needs levels to get his better spells. Thru out the middle of the game Tyrin's spells do plenty of damage. I'd make Kazin a sorceror over him since Kazin's Wizard spellbook peaks super early as Blaze 4 and Desoul 2 are his best spells. Desoul is unreliable on later enemies, and the last tier of bad guys resist fire. The only reason to ever make Kazin a wizard is if you are doing a minium level run. If that's not the Tyrin will be sporting his best spells by the end of the game since he's active all along, and Freeze 4 wrecks all fire enemies. Having Tyrin as a wiz and Kazin as a sorc gives you two strong casters trhough the whole game and they pull their weight the entire time.

SRPGinvestigato posted...
Elric (Sniper) - The extra move is apparently negated by the worse movement type compared to Brass Gunner. Higher agility isn't bad but May has it beat. I think he's just better off as a Brass Gunner.

Not sure where this idea is coming from. Snipers move thru forest unimpeded which is huge chunks of the game. Brass gunners get hindered by it. Brass gunners get more def and hps...but if you're constantly get hit with your archers...you're using them wrong. By the end of the game you can fire from 3 spaces away, which you should be able to fire with impunity on enemies. Ultimately I'd pick May over any of other archers since she has the most attack of the lot which is really the only stat that matter for archers, but if I were going use another one they would never be a brass gunner. If I wanted be Obressive about stats...I'd just promote at 40 and it negates any advantage the brass gunner would have. (Which I dislike the way Brassgunners look.)

Vivi0198 posted...
Karna (Vicar; F*** MM)
Claude (pimento)
Zynk (pimento)

Why would you make a vicar? Seriously they're so ugly compared to Master monks....Only reason I can see doing that is if you are doing a minium lvl run/no egressing and want Karna and Sarah both right away. If you're trying make the game harder you probably shouldn't be using Karna period. I'd rather give a pimento two mastermonks and knock stuff thru a wall and have a fighter and healer in one, than drag either of these late game bench warmers along. Any Mastermonk can easily be leveled thru the roof since they have access to spells. Between having access to knuckles which have really high attack values and being likely overleveled, they can break faces. Sure mystery rods regain 2 mp a turn but if you have over 100 mp you shouldn't run out before the enemies are dead.

I'd rather use a warrior characters Randalf or Jaha as they can use Ground axes to move 6 or 7. Paladins get better range with Mist Javalins. By the end of the game most enemies have special breath attacks negating any defense advantage Zynk and Claude have which they have lower hps than your typical warrior or knight. Zynk also has the annoying habit of firing his laser, which does less damage than just striking an enemy if you actually did level him up since like Kiwi's fire it does fixed damage.

Both 4 movers come prepromoted so they can never be the top tier characters. Anyone who can be promoted at higher lvls outclasses them. Both are late arrivals so they need to catch up as you would be better off spending your energy anywhere else net a greater result. They aren't worth grinding to catch up. Sure you can use them since the game is not that hard, but they're two of the worst characters in the game bar none. If you are already willing do extra battles to grind to catch them up...I'd recommend anyone else over them. I'd rather dump extra exp into characters that I can promote at lvl 30 or 40 if I'm allowing myself to repeat battles.There's no incentive to promote characters prior till you start seeing weapons that you can't equip. You're just handicapping early characters to make late game fodder not seem terrible by comparison. Unlike Guntz in shining force 1,who is actually good even with 4 movement (having spears and he moves thru everything offsets his 4 movement.) these guys don't hack it.
"Laws only exist when there's someone there to uphold them."
PSN:Lastjustice
(edited 1 year ago)
Given how easy level grinding is in this game with the fairy forest, I don't view any "takes longer" or "higher level" requirements to be real limitations.
Laissez les bons temps rouler.

User Info: BIgComputerGeek

BIgComputerGeek
8 months ago#18
I've never understood why people say Kiwi is so bad. I've had Kiwi on my team in every single playthrough I've ever done over the years, and every time he's always one of the best characters. Both his attack and defense always reach the "??" range, and his movement is great. He does a ton of damage, and he takes 1 damage from almost every physical attacking enemy in the game even when you first game him, and he can reach enemies nearly as quickly as the flying units. The only downside would be his low HP, meaning magic can take him out in one or two hits if you're unlucky, but I've never understood that argument as a point against him. This is a strategy game, and you have 12 units in play. Why would you send Kiwi out to face a mage you weren't sure you could 1-shot when you don't have to? Would you send your healer into a fist fight against a knight or warrior?

User Info: Elrick75

Elrick75
8 months ago#19
BIgComputerGeek posted...
I've never understood why people say Kiwi is so bad. I've had Kiwi on my team in every single playthrough I've ever done over the years, and every time he's always one of the best characters. Both his attack and defense always reach the "??" range, and his movement is great. He does a ton of damage, and he takes 1 damage from almost every physical attacking enemy in the game even when you first game him, and he can reach enemies nearly as quickly as the flying units. The only downside would be his low HP, meaning magic can take him out in one or two hits if you're unlucky, but I've never understood that argument as a point against him. This is a strategy game, and you have 12 units in play. Why would you send Kiwi out to face a mage you weren't sure you could 1-shot when you don't have to? Would you send your healer into a fist fight against a knight or warrior?

In some stages it's pretty much impossible to avoid magic users. But another point against him is that when he gets ?? attack, his random breath attacks are a reverse crit and you deal less damage because they didn't code it to scale properly. As I recall, it scales up in power, but not until really high levels. Also, depending on how unlucky you are his health can almost never go up while there are other characters who get almost as much defense as him but are way more likely to get good health too.

I love Kiwi and always use him, but he is definitely not one of the better characters mechanically.
My top 10: Phantasy Star IV, Shining Force II, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy Tactics, Monster Rancher, FFVI, FE:A, ToG f, Tactics Ogre:LUCT, Breath of Fire II

User Info: ellis123

ellis123
6 months ago#20
SRPGinvestigato posted...
I probably did put Karna a bit low - but I don't think you really need TWO Vicars under any circumstance is why (plus Multiple Monks guarantees you'll have a lot of options for heals.)
That isn't something that should be a determining factor in a tier list. Tier lists assume that you would use them in place of any alternative with the goal of making them their best. And if they are still bad then they go in lower tiers and if they're good then they're in higher tiers. The question you need to ask is "Is Karna valuable on your team as a Vicar?" and "Does bringing her in as a Vicar cause any weakness' on your team that you might not otherwise have (ignoring the fact that she isn't a Master Monk)?" Not as a disagreement with him but to give an example of the latter Vivi gave a pimento to Zynk in order to make his movement not trash. This is a major weakness as without it you cannot expect him to keep up unless you are turtling the whole time while inversely you could potentially run it on an otherwise good character to make a much more OP character. Thus the question Vivi is trying to answer is that Zynk's strength is good enough that even with that in-built weakness he is still strong enough to warrant using.

The Masked Mage posted...
Given how easy level grinding is in this game with the fairy forest, I don't view any "takes longer" or "higher level" requirements to be real limitations.
The Fairy Forest is no Tower of Valni: it takes non-trivial amounts of time to get to levels where everyone evens out. Similarly basing things on a more reasonable/normal playthrough of the game is perfectly acceptable as a basis for a tier list and not everyone plans on spending hours running the same map over and over for levels. And even if we were to do just that the tier list would be pretty radically changed in ways that I don't think would be particularly conducive. For instance, Kiwi would instantly move up to A tier (or somewhere around there, at least) as high movement + flight + dunking everything is pretty good and even if his HP sucks for a good 70% of his levels those last couple let him shrug off even magic attacks and thus his defining weakness is completely nulled.

Karna is special on that front as far as this game is concerned as she basically gets to start off every fight gaining half of a level regardless of what her level is and gets "easy mode" levels pretty much at will. Thus even in casual, non-grinding play she will rapidly blow past basically the entire team's levels without looking back.

In any case the tier list has way too bloated of an A tier and is flat out missing a B tier.
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