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  3. If and When to Transform Characters - Share Your Strategy

User Info: thrawnca

thrawnca
6 months ago#41
BareknuckleRoo posted...
The face that your HP and MP are so huge compared to Humans and Mutants makes me wonder why you'd play without transforming short of a challenge run.

Various possibilities:

  • Humans and Mutants are simpler. You give them equipment and spells, and that's what they can do.
  • They have no prerequisites.
  • They're more stable/steady. Beasts and Cyborgs constantly change forms, so just as you've become accustomed to one form, you have to learn about another one. Monsters don't change, but can't use any equipment, either, and won't get any stronger on level up - and a new player might not know which meat to give them to get the results they want.
  • They fit the storyline better. It's a world where monsters are invading and humans are almost wiped out; remaining human or near-human makes sense in principle.
  • A player who doesn't do any research before experimenting with transformation is likely to have a bad experience, especially with cyborgs or robots, and just decide to stick with what works.


To get close to a transformed character with a Human or Mutants requires a ton of grinding.

True, but they can eventually grind much higher.

Humans have no advantages at all once strong martial arts for Beasts are available and once Mystic Swords appear. There's no reason to ever use the exotic "normal" weapons like Petrify Hammer or Ninja Stars as far as I can tell when Beasts can use Jyudo to hit for comparable damage at that point.

On the other hand, there's no point using strong martial arts when you can use Petrify and Fatal via item magic.

Mutants at least deal double damage with magic, but their squishiness simply isn't worth it as far as I'm concerned.

At high levels, though, they can have seriously high MP.

I personally think that Monsters are the most logical choice for early game (no equipment needed), with Cyborgs and Robots becoming powerful options for the late-game bosses when you have the resources to properly equip them, and then Humans/Mutants are an option for those willing to do the heavy grinding to bring them over 999 HP/MP.

User Info: DamageInc

DamageInc
6 months ago#42
The game is pretty easy no matter how you slice it. Grinding humans/mutants up doesn't even take that long with the Talon and a few Nuke spells on deck. I don't think they're completely outclassed by the transformed classes.

I think the robots-need-time idea doesn't really hold up, though. I funneled about 75% of my money into my robot from Past onwards (that was the first time I found robot parts) and it out-damaged and out-tanked my whole party pretty much right from that point onwards. I still had more than enough cash to keep everyone else well-equipped.

Robots are just pretty much all-around busted, I think. Their talents are super powerful with just a modest spend on HP and attack capsules, and they do crazy damage with mystic swords once those are an option.

Cyborgs, however, definitely need time. As long as you stick to versions with instant kill talents, they can always do at least that, but they can't really hit their stride until Future.
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(edited 6 months ago)

User Info: BareknuckleRoo

BareknuckleRoo
5 months ago#43


* They're more stable/steady. Beasts and Cyborgs constantly change forms, so just as you've become accustomed to one form

This was more true of Monsters in FFL1 and 2. In FFL3, you always have access to spells, Beasts can always use martial arts, Cyborgs can always kinda suck until a Mystic Sword becomes available, and Robots have absurd stat growth for their talent damage. The exact form you have doesn't change your available abilities nearly to the extent it did in prior games; any Beast will work just fine with shop buyable martial arts for instance.

True, but they can eventually grind much higher.

I mean, that's technically true, but why would you need to? Monsters/Beasts/Cyborgs/Robots are statted appropriated to deal with the final bosses at their max growth level (Monsters are kinda lacking in resists though). Like, the level cap for Final Fantasy 1 (NES) is 50, but you can beat the game a good twenty levels prior to that with an average team. If you wanna powergrind go for it I guess, but it's not really necessary. For the relevant parts of the game, Humans and Mutants will be beaten out by their counterparts statwise.

On the other hand, there's no point using strong martial arts when you can use Petrify and Fatal via item magic.

I mean, obviously instant kill attacks are great for random encounters, but good luck using instant kill attacks on bosses.

At high levels, though, they can have seriously high MP.

You can powerlevel if you like, and it's no secret that Humans and Mutants can have higher overall stats, but you can beat the game long before that point. Anubises have nearly 1000 in both HP and MP whereas at level 30 Mutants aren't even over 600 HP. And, something which can't be gained via levels, the best final Beast, Cyborg, and Robot forms also have Selfix, as well as various resistances. In particular, Anubises have O-All which frees up a Ribbon for Borgin to use.

They fit the storyline better. It's a world where monsters are invading and humans are almost wiped out; remaining human or near-human makes sense in principle.

Tell that to the guy who's cloned, cybernetically resurrected, and has a bomb shoved in him.

Honestly it's quite disappointing the game doesn't let you just make your own characters like the previous games considering the 4 main characters basically function as blank slates and have no distinguishing personality whatsoever. Why can't you make a 4 mutant team if you want? Boo.

Robots are just pretty much all-around busted, I think. Their talents are super powerful with just a modest spend on HP and attack capsules, and they do crazy damage with mystic swords once those are an option.

Cyborgs, however, definitely need time. As long as you stick to versions with instant kill talents, they can always do at least that, but they can't really hit their stride until Future.

Agreed, Robots are badly underrated in this game considering how powerful they are. You can make them utterly dominating very early on, and all you need is a bit of magical support to keep them healed, which you'd want to have anyways. Cyborgs always strike me as worse Beasts. There's only rarely a form that's more interesting than an equivalent Beast, with Beasts being able to deal more damage with shop buyable martial arts. Cyborgs only ever felt like they could be even with Beasts once mystic swords come into play, which are the only weapon or attack type that gives them a bonus I'm aware of. Monsters of course don't get any multiplier bonuses either, but often have far higher natural stats as well as early access to useful resistances, making them ideal for healing/spellcasting/tanking.
(edited 5 months ago)

User Info: Sabranic

Sabranic
5 months ago#44
Unless I am doing a challenge or a flavor run, I don't like using Cyborgs, Monsters, Beasts or robots. That said, I will always spend about two hours grinding to 40 in Future Mu, which will see to it I can buy anything I want equipment-wise, and that Humans and Mutants will, at that level, out-perform these creatures. When you have 2x Quake for your mutants, it's basically game over for normal encounters, and gets even easier once you snag that second fire crystal for Flare.

I leveled a party to 99 - twice now - and from about level 60 on, humans and mutants are overwhelmingly stronger than the other creatures. For casual play, the hybrids and robots will certainly get you through the game - Saga 3 is very easy, and magic potions/tents/healing springs make every dungeon very easy to simply spam your strongest attacks. (It's also very easy to grind your way past the difficulty curve in a couple of hours in the right spots).

If you're min/maxing and doing the completionist thing, Mutants spamming Flare/White/Nuke for mobs and humans swinging Excalibur and Masamune (with some nukes tossed in for non-ODamage), for bosses are the pinnacle of devastation - as stats go north of 99 on their primary attributes pretty quickly at higher levels. HP and MP got into the thousands for Humans and Mutants as well, allowing you to basically ignore five or six AoE attacks from the end bosses before your HP even drop below 999.

Saga 3, (Mystic Quest Alpha in reality), was a product of it's team and time. As someone who bought it new when he was in High School, it was amazing to see a nearly "fully featured" final fantasy game on a hand-held. You had auto attacks, the game remembered what you did in previous battles, a reasonably full spell list, lots of NPC's, good music for the format, a flying headquarters, lots of inventory space and cool consumables (again - for the era). At the time I LOVED that your weapons didn't shatter after 40 or so uses, though, I've come to appreciate the Saga style/mechanics in their won right. Also, compared to what was available, the translation was at least understandable. (They had to conserve every word due to the ridiculously small cart size).

To modern eyes, the game looks pretty forgettable, but in it's era, Saga 3 was one of the most involved handheld RPG's on the market, in terms of mechanics, story, music and depth.
(edited 5 months ago)

User Info: thrawnca

thrawnca
5 months ago#45
Sabranic posted...
Mutants spamming Flare/White/Nuke for mobs

You don't use item magic, then? Wall Staff to cast Stone, Armlet to cast Fatal, with unlimited uses and no MP cost?

User Info: BareknuckleRoo

BareknuckleRoo
5 months ago#46
Sabranic posted...
Unless I am doing a challenge or a flavor run, I don't like using Cyborgs, Monsters, Beasts or robots. That said, I will always spend about two hours grinding to 40 in Future Mu, which will see to it I can buy anything I want equipment-wise, and that Humans and Mutants will, at that level, out-perform these creatures.

Humans and Mutants do not have innate Selfix, anti All, or anti Change. They also have more limited stat pools, especially MP or HP compared to their other counterparts. Humans and Mutants really only compete with or outperform other races in terms of raw stats when considerably overlevelled (level 40 is 9 levels above the top tier forms at level 31). If you enjoy grinding, that's fine and all, but Mutants particularly tend to be considerably less useful in this game than in previous SaGa games. You also don't have any choice in this game about how many Humans vs Mutants you start with, a poor design choice I think and a step back from previous games in terms of freedom of party composition.

If you're looking for a magic heavy team, both Monsters and Beasts perform well statwise, being much sturdier and with helpful innate abilities, at the cost of dealing half damage with spells. Sure, a Monster can't hit as hard as a Mutant can in terms of raw damage, but they are often far less squishy and with built in resists Mutants lack. I still seem to remember two shotting everything with Flare in the endgame with 'em, though Mutants certainly speed things up if you want to grind to the level cap for sheer speed for ending random encounters.

HP and MP got into the thousands for Humans and Mutants as well, allowing you to basically ignore five or six AoE attacks from the end bosses before your HP even drop below 999.

This true for a lot of games where the level cap is several times higher than the reasonable level at which you'd be able to clear the game. The original Final Fantasy (NES) also had a very high level cap (perhaps so as to allow for suboptimal teams, and solo runs to be doable, etc). It's not really a selling point for Humans or Mutants though in this game. Level 99 is over three times as much grinding as is needed to max out your stats for other races and beat the game.
(edited 5 months ago)

User Info: DamageInc

DamageInc
5 months ago#47
Sabranic posted...
Saga 3, (Mystic Quest Alpha in reality), was a product of it's team and time. As someone who bought it new when he was in High School, it was amazing to see a nearly "fully featured" final fantasy game on a hand-held. You had auto attacks, the game remembered what you did in previous battles, a reasonably full spell list, lots of NPC's, good music for the format, a flying headquarters, lots of inventory space and cool consumables (again - for the era). At the time I LOVED that your weapons didn't shatter after 40 or so uses, though, I've come to appreciate the Saga style/mechanics in their won right. Also, compared to what was available, the translation was at least understandable. (They had to conserve every word due to the ridiculously small cart size).

To modern eyes, the game looks pretty forgettable, but in it's era, Saga 3 was one of the most involved handheld RPG's on the market, in terms of mechanics, story, music and depth.

This was my experience as well. FFL3 felt similar to Super Mario Land 2 for me -- like Super Nintendo levels of quality on a console that always felt sort of primitive otherwise. It was really magical.
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(edited 5 months ago)

User Info: _Kaz

_Kaz
5 months ago#48
It was a light version of Chrono Trigger before Chrono Trigger came out.
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User Info: thrawnca

thrawnca
5 months ago#49
BareknuckleRoo posted...
Level 99 is over three times as much grinding as is needed to max out your stats for other races and beat the game.

Well, with the way that EXP requirements scale up with every level, level 99 is really quite a bit more than triple level 33. It's not exponentially more, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's ten times more.

User Info: BareknuckleRoo

BareknuckleRoo
5 months ago#50
Yes, you're right, in terms of time spent it'd probably take as long to hit level 99 as it would simply beating the game from start to finish normally? I dunno, it's a lot of grinding.
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