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  3. Genis spells analysis

User Info: Chaos_Liger

Chaos_Liger
10 years ago#1
I haven't seen one yet, and I've been curious about the exact workings of Genis' spells, (and Rita has such a nice, detailed arte list at Aselia wiki) so I decided to do a bit of testing on my own. If there already exists something like this, if someone could direct me to it I'd really appreciate it. So far I've only done advanced spells since those are the ones I care most about.

In regards to casting time, no ex skills or mystic symbols were equipped. Funnily enough, the ex skill speed cast doesn't really seem to affect casting time at all... Can someone else check this as well?

Spells are organized from highest to lowest damage. The damages provided are only rough estimates to show the relative strength of spells compared to each other since I don't know how to measure the actual strengths of the spells. On a side note, my Genis was at level 181 with int of 824 when this data was taken.

If anyone could help confirm or correct any of my findings, that'd be great. Thanks!

T-Type spells

indignation
- casting time: 8 seconds
- hit count: 1
- damage per hit: 8500
- total damage: 8500

explosion
- casting time: 7 seconds
- hit count: 1
- damage per hit: 6750
- total damage: 6750

cyclone
- casting time: 7 seconds
- hit count: 12
- damage per hit: 450
- total damage: 5400

ground dasher
- casting time: 6 seconds
- hit count: 10
- damage per hit: 475
- total damage: 4750

tidal wave
- casting time: 7.5 seconds
- hit count: 12
- damage per hit: 250
- total damage: 3000


S-Type spells

prism sword
- casting time: 6.5 seconds
- type 1 hit count: 6
- type 2 hit count: 1
- type 1 damage per hit: 2500
- type 2 damage per hit: 5000
- total damage: n/a
* type 1 is the first 6 swords, type 2 is the last sword that falls in the center

absolute
- casting time: 6 seconds
- type 1 hit count: 1
- type 2 hit count: 1
- type 1 damage per hit: 2500
- type 2 damage per hit: 4000
- total damage: 6500
* type 1 is the first hit, type 2 is the second hit

earth bite
- casting time: 5 seconds
- type 1 hit count: 8
- type 2 hit count: 2
- type 1 damage per hit: 425
- type 2 damage per hit: 1200
- total damage: 5800
* type 1 are the 8 lightning hits, type 2 are the last 2 earth hits

thunder arrow
- casting time: 5.5 seconds
- hit count: 10
- damage per hit: 525
- total damage: 5250

atlas
- casting time: 5.5 seconds
- hit count: 9
- damage per hit: 575
- total damage: 5175

spiral flare
- casting time: 5 seconds
- hit count: 5
- damage per hit: 950
- total damage: 4750


other

dreaded wave
- casting time: 5 seconds
- hit count: 8
- damage per hit: 450
- total damage: 3600

meteor storm
- casting time: 8 seconds
- hit count: 14
- damage per hit: n/a
- total damage: n/a
* meteor storm is physical so it can't really be compared to the other spells.


On a side note, I did a quick comparison of Raine's Photon vs Ray:

Photon first hit = 1400
Photon second hit = 3200
Total = 4600

Ray damage per hit = 3300

Ray actually casts slightly faster, at around 5 seconds, while Photon casts in around 5.5 seconds. So if you're really sure Ray is only going to hit once and you're not trying to get prism stars with Genis, Photon is the better choice for unison attacks and probably general damage output.

User Info: Chaos_Liger

Chaos_Liger
10 years ago#2
Sorry for the double post. I went over the character limit for the first post.

The main reason I wanted to do this was to find out which spells were best for given situations, be it for overall damage or for damage with good casting speed, etc. My major deductions are as follows:
- Indignation is by far Genis' strongest spell, meteor storm and prism sword random hits non-withstanding, and the best spell for a strong unison attack, especially with Raine to get prism stars.
- Explosion lags rather far behind indignation in terms of damage, but is your next strongest option when fighting an enemy that resists lightning.
- Tidal wave is surprisingly weak (or at least, surprising to me), but considering its area of effect, I guess it's fair.
- On the other hand, Cyclone is surprisingly strong. It hits as many times as tidal wave yet is almost twice as powerful and still has a huge area of effect.
- Ground Dasher overall seems to be just better than Dreaded Wave. It has comparable, if not larger, area of effect and does a lot more damage and 2 more hits for about one more second worth of casting time and 12 more tp.
- In terms of damage efficiency, it seems that the S-Type spells generally cast faster for less tp and more damage than the T-Type spells, but with smaller area of effect.
- Earth Bite seems really strong considering its low casting time.

User Info: Shinryu

Shinryu
10 years ago#3
Here are the damage multipliers for the spells. This is what's used in the damage formula, but a simple way to approximate the damage would just be to multiply Intelligence by the multiplier.


Fire Ball - 0.60 x3
Eruption - 1.20 x3
Flame Lance - 2.00, 250
Explosion - 8.00

Icicle - 0.80 x2
Ice Tornado - 0.70 x6
Freeze Lancer - 0.80 x6

Stone Blast - 0.65 x3
Stalagmite - 0.70 x5
Grave - 0.85 x5
Ground Dasher - 0.65 x10

Wind Blade - 0.55 x3
Air Thrust - 0.70 x7
Air Blade - 1.45 x3
Cyclone - 0.60 x12

Aqua Edge - 0.60 x3
Spread - 0.95 x4
Aqua Laser - 1.40 x3
Tidal Wave - 0.40 x12

Lightning - 1.05
Thunder Blade - 1.20, 1.00 x3
Spark Wave - 0.60 x8
Indignation - 10.00

Dreaded Wave - 0.60 x8
Raging Mist - 1.00 x5
Spiral Flare - 1.20 x5
Volt Arrow - 0.72 x10
Gravity Well - 0.70 x8

Absolute - 3.00, 4.80
Atlas - 0.78 x9
Earth Bite - 0.60 x8, 2.00 x2
Prism Sword - 3.00 x6, 6.00
Meteor Swarm - 4.25 x14

Indignation Judgment - 2.0, 1.0 x6, 2.5, 2.0, 7.0

Photon - 5.00
Ray - 3.50 x9
Holy Lance - 1.80 x5
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User Info: Chaos_Liger

Chaos_Liger
10 years ago#4
Wow, that's awesome! Thanks so much. Where did you find this info? And is there also anything on casting times?

It looks like the damages I found match up correctly to the data that you posted, except for earth bite. That's a a lot stronger than what I saw, and considering its low casting time it seems a bit over powered? The first 8 hits have low range, so I guess it's somewhat understandable, but on the flip side, if you have other characters combo-ing the target and keeping it in place, that's no longer an issue. Pretty interesting.

Thanks, again.

User Info: Shinryu

Shinryu
10 years ago#5
It's from the Japanese Official Complete Guide, except for Indignation Judgment; it just gives the hi-ougi values as unknown in the book, but with a few tests and knowing the damage formula, it's not much trouble to figure out.

Unfortunately, no info on cast time listed in the guide. I'm pretty sure I had it at some point, but it's been years.

Ah, I think you're right. Earth Bite should be 1.50 on the last two hits. I think it was made a little stronger (2.00 instead of 1.50) in the PS2 version, as I've got two different values recorded. Also, the 250 on Flame Lance should be 2.50... Otherwise Flame Lance would instant kill everything.
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User Info: God_of_Humility

God_of_Humility
10 years ago#6
Wow! I've been looking for this kind of info for ages. Thanks for posting this. Do you, by any chance, also have values for other spells like Angelic spells or Summons?

Also, are the spells multipliers the same no matter who uses it? Like Kratos using Eruption would do the same amount of dame as Genis' if they had the same intelligence?

User Info: Chaos_Liger

Chaos_Liger
10 years ago#7
Ah that's cool. Too bad about the casting times, but I guess my approximate timings with a stopwatch are about good enough. I also wonder how much the mystic symbol affects casting time. I feel like it's a multiplier value, but it seems like most spells are hastened by about a second. I didn't test this yet, though, so that's just a guess.

1.5 for the last two hits of earth bite seems more reasonable, as well as concurrent with my recorded values. Hahah, I didn't even notice the 250 for flame lance. That'd be pretty hilarious.

Speaking of damage, I'm surprised how strong holy lance is. 1.80 x5 = 9... That's almost as strong as Indignation, and my Raine, oddly enough, has more int than my Genis... If Prism Stars weren't so good, or I had the ps2 version of Symphonia that has more unison attacks, I'd probably opt for holy lance instead.

User Info: Shinryu

Shinryu
10 years ago#8
Mystic Symbol - I'm not sure the exact value, but it's typically around 25% faster for most Tales games

The spell multipliers are the same across the board; the only difference comes from the caster's Int and the enemy.

Some of this might be a little off. Apparently I didn't organize all my info very well, though I'm a bit surprised to still have this considering I've changed computers twice since having played this...

Colette
Angel Feathers
--- 1.80 x3
--- 6 sec
Sacrifice
--- 2.00 x1, 8.00 x1
--- 7 sec
Judgment
--- 4.00 x17
--- 6.5 sec
Holy Judgment
--- 18.5 x17
--- 6.5 sec


Genis
Fire Ball
--- 0.60 x3
--- 2.5 sec
Eruption
--- 1.20 x3
--- 3 sec
Flame Lance
--- 2.00, 2.50
--- 3.5 sec
Explosion
--- 8.00
--- 6.5 sec
Icicle
--- 0.80 x2
--- 2.5 sec
Ice Tornado
--- 0.70 x6
--- 3.5 sec
Freeze Lancer
--- 0.80 x6
--- 3.5 sec
Stone Blast
--- 0.65 x3
--- 2.5 sec
Stalagmite
--- 0.70 x5
--- 3.5 sec
Grave
--- 0.85 x5
--- 3.5 sec
Ground Dasher
--- 0.65 x10
--- 5.5 sec
Wind Blade
--- 0.55 x3
--- 2.5 sec
Air Thrust
--- 0.70 x7
--- 3.5 sec
Air Blade
--- 1.45 x3
--- 3 sec
Cyclone
--- 0.60 x12
--- 6.5 sec
Aqua Edge
--- 0.60 x3
--- 2.5 sec
Spread
--- 0.95 x4
--- 2 sec
Aqua Laser
--- 1.40 x3
--- 2 sec
Tidal Wave
--- 0.40 x12
--- 7 sec
Lightning
--- 1.05
--- 2.5 sec
Thunder Blade
--- 1.20, 1.00 x3
--- 3.5 sec
Spark Wave
--- 0.60 x8
--- 3.5 sec
Indignation
--- 10.00
--- 8 sec
Dreaded Wave
--- 0.60 x8
--- 4.5 sec
Raging Mist
--- 1.00 x5
--- 4.5 sec
Spiral Flare
--- 1.20 x5
--- 5 sec
Volt Arrow
--- 0.72 x10
--- 5.5 sec
Gravity Well
--- 0.70 x8
--- 4.5 sec
Absolute
--- 3.00, 4.80
--- 5.5 sec
Atlas
--- 0.78 x9
--- 5.5 sec
Earth Bite
--- 0.60 x8, 2.00 x2
--- 5 sec
Prism Sword
--- 3.00 x6, 6.00
--- 6 sec
Meteor Swarm
--- 4.25 x14
--- 8 sec
Indignation Judgment
--- 2.0, 1.0 x6, 2.5, 2.0, 7.0
--- 4.5 sec


Raine
Photon
--- 1.50, 3.50
--- 5 sec
Ray
--- 3.50 x9
--- 4.5 sec
Holy Lance
--- 1.25 x4, 3.0
--- 4.5 sec


Sheena
Efreet
--- 11.0
--- 4 sec
Undine
--- 4.0 x16
--- 4 sec
Sylph
--- 2.0 x15, 6.0
--- 4 sec
Luna
--- 10.0 x17
--- 4 sec
Gnome
--- 6.0, 1.0 x5
--- 4 sec
Celsius
--- 5.0 x6
--- 4 sec
Volt
--- 2.0 x10
--- 4 sec
Shadow
--- 1.5 x10
--- 4 sec
Origin
--- 2.5 x14
--- 7 sec
Maxwell
--- 6.0 x14
--- 5 sec
XBL/PSN/NN/Steam: ShinryuReishiki
http://www.youtube.com/user/ShinryuReishiki

User Info: Chaos_Liger

Chaos_Liger
10 years ago#9
This is amazing. Thanks so much.

It seems like I was off on the high side for most of the spells. After looking this over, I think that Genis' best DPS spells are probably Absolute, Earth Bite, Thunder Arrow, and Atlas. They all have pretty high damage for low cast times and TP cost. I actually didn't know about the spell queue until today when I was looking through other Genis related threads. But knowing about it now, it looks to be even more important to choose spells that cast as soon as possible.

How exactly does the spell queue work, by the way? If Raine and Genis start Ray and Indignation at the same time, Raine's Ray will cast first after 4.5 seconds. So is it during the time that she's casting that Genis' casting time doesn't go down, and then it resumes when Raine finishes casting? Or is it that Genis' casting time still goes down during her casting, but he can't cast until she finishes? Or is it Genis' casting time doesn't even start to decrease until Raine has finished? Or something else?

I wish I knew about all this stuff on my second play through and onward, hahah. I'm about to finish my fourth and probably final play through (for a while, anyway). =/ But it's fun to know this stuff. Thanks again for all the info. Maybe I'll go edit Aselia wiki's pages on spells there cause they all lack damage spreads and casting times.

User Info: the_rowan

the_rowan
10 years ago#10
The spell queue pauses the cast timer while a level 2+ spell is going. So if you needed to wait 3 seconds to cast and another spell starts, you still have to wait 3 seconds after it finishes. To be fair, Nimble Mage would let you literally chain certain spells almost infinitely otherwise, or having multiple mages.

Also I think that puts Holy Judgment as the best DPS spell in the game if you use the glitch to cast it. Sylph stands out as the best summon for single normal/small enemies by a long shot, way better than even Origin.
"That is why war is so tragic. To win means to make victims of your opponents and give birth to hatred." - Kratos Aurion, Tales of Symphonia
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