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  3. Playstyle Contoversy (spoilers throughout)

User Info: LazyWaysef

2 months ago#1
A concept that comes up quite often is the idea of different playstyles.

Some people play the game a certain particular way which leads them to very different conclusions about the worth of certain abilities, certain characters, and other things.

The idea that different people play the game a different way of course upsets no one. Where it gets controversial is when people make recommendations to others.

What is very interesting to me is that I still do not know the full outline of what a standard game is according to veterans of the board.

Further, some of the things I have gleaned so far differ completely from anything I ever observed in real life players of the game. For example, level 35 seems to be considered a high endgame level. I have never met anyone IRL who was playing this and anywhere near the early 30s at that point.

An example of something I never see described is active vs wait and what battle speed.

So I always play Active - 1 the fastest speed. This makes things like a shorter rage list very beneficial. I don’t have time to think very long about which rage I want to use and then look for it. This would detract from Gau’s value for me slightly.

There are deviations from the standard that are deemed acceptable and those that are not.
For example, spending an hour on the Veldt is an acceptable deviation but solo leveling Shadow and/or Celes with Stray after Zozo is not. Both help the character in question without harming anyone else.

To clarify the second one. Shadow’s level is never used for reaveraging (to my knowledge and experimentation) in the WoB and Celes is only used for Shadow’s level after this point. Therefore, you can freely level Shadow and Celes from 13 to whatever level you think would be average level when they return (approx 23-26).

It only took me 30ish minutes to level Shadow from 13 to 24 in the forest near Kohlingen. It gave him 11 extra magic. Same with Celes although it was a bit longer since I couldn’t buy scrolls.

The following characters can be helped immensely by investing time at no ones detriment: Celes, Shadow, Relm, Strago, Gau.

Celes and Shadow as mentioned. Gau with Veldt. Relm (Esper time) and Strago (Lore/Esper time)

Here are some level markers I use as guidelines for any analysis. I’ve been trying to get a more objective measurement of these.

Right before Narshe Defense 11-15
Zozo 13-16
IMRF 14-18
Sealed Gate 17-21
Thamasa 19-25
Floating Continent beginning 22-27
WoR 24-31
Falcon 27-34
Characters reunited 32-37
Kefkas tower 35-44
Reasonably Overleveled 45-50

Anything 50+ is unreasonably overleveled for analysis.

Thoughts? Also share your playstyle if you like. I’m curious about how people play this game. Also what do you think is the most common way and what is within a reasonable tolerance level of that?
(edited 2 months ago)

User Info: Arbalist

2 months ago#2
I like equipping every character with the latest gear available, even if you only need the items for the chars you're currently using. I often end up a little overleveled as a result.

Regarding Gau / Relm / Strago, I see their respective abilities and the work to acquire them not as grinding but just what the game intends you to do: invest some time and effort into them to expand their capabilities. Staying at one spot and deliberately fighting randoms just for the exp points DOES feels like grinding to me, and depending on the game and its difficulty it kinda feels like cheating since you're just artificially inflating your numbers to make battles easier.

Most turn-based RPG's don't really require a lot of skill but focus mostly on knowledge of the game, enemy AI, what items and skills to use and so on. Grinding (to a point where any strategy doesn't matter anymore or at least less so) takes the fun out of it a bit.

When I was younger I actually really liked grinding to a high level (in RPG's and everywhere else appliable) and curb-stomp everything. Now I'm older I don't really have the free time to play games for hours on end anyway, but I find it far more enjoyable to challenge myself and stay at a lower level.

I know I bring this up a lot, but I recently completed the BNW hack of FF6 with all my characters at level 30 and Esper level 20 (basically, the levels where you gain stats boosts like in the vanilla game). The hack actually has a option to switch EXP off and cuts most of the level averaging throughout the game, so you have a lot of control over how challenging you want the game to be. I honestly don't even remember what the regular endgame levels of vanilla FF6 are supposed to be, but there are plenty of ways to cheese through encounters anyway so I think it matters less anyway.
Currently playing: Fire Emblem Fates CQ

User Info: LazyWaysef

2 months ago#3
Thanks @Arbalist that’s exactly the type of thing I was looking for!

I remember when I was a kid I desperately wanted to get to higher levels but wasn’t patient enough. Now I try to keep my levels down 😆

Thats interesting about the equipment. I also like to have my whole crew decked out, I hate sharing gear but I don’t upgrade at every step.
I always cringe when someone recommends stripping gear from one party in Kefkas tower and then equipping it on another one.

Lately I’ve been doing something kinda weird in my playthroughs where I predict what level my characters will get to in the next dungeon and I grind the characters I’m not going to use to that level or one below so they won’t miss out on Esper boosts by averaging up. This is because I’m trying to compare the characters apples to apples.

That’s where I thought of the Celes/Shadow thing, it’s like the ultimate insane extension of that.

Your note on Relm/Strago/Gau is a very good point. I do think though that it should be factored in when people discuss which characters are better than others that there are some who come ready to go and others that require time to build up.

You mentioned two of my favorite features in BNW. One thing that drives me crazy in both this game and Breath of Fire 3 is having to keep my level artificially low to not miss out on stat boosts. The other is getting too powerful in games 😄

User Info: Lewkis

2 months ago#4
I'm a single-party kinda guy. When I start the game I think of who I want my main 4 to be and focus on them as much as possible and use those 4 whenever I can. Sometimes my choice coincides with characters that are forced into the party throughout the story, which is nice.

I'm like that with all games though. It's really weird but I want to pick who I want in my party and just play them, but story-driven parties don't bother me much either. Guess one just learns to adapt and go with it.

I'm also an anti-hoarder. When I get gear upgrades I sell the old stuff at the first chance I get. If it isn't something my main 4 members are going to use I don't keep it. Only exception for whatever reason is relics; usually end up with a good collection by the end. I also tend to not buy them, except for the Sprint Shoes at the beginning.

Grinding? When I was younger and had free time developed myself a system of sorts, one that I went with every playthrough as a routine to get me to Lete River. At the beginning I would solo grind Terra to level 10. Then with Locke I would get them both to level 12 or 13 in the desert. With Edgar, I'd get all three to level 15 on Mt Koltz so Sabin would have Fire Dance when he joined. Banon would also be high enough level to survive without an issue.

I don't go to that extreme these days, but I'll still pad a few levels on for old time's sake.
Switch Friend Code: SW-2501-1996-2605

User Info: LazyWaysef

2 months ago#5
Thanks for sharing @Lewkis that is very interesting, I remember another person on here would always grind up for early fire dance too. Interesting use of level averaging in the early game.

I tend to also focus in on a few characters each playthrough although I try to mix it up and grind everyone a bit, there’s almost always tradeoffs.

Also antihoarding is an interesting one, I also used to sell everything off but have gotten lazy about it. I am notoriously cheap though and rarely shop items.

So out of further interest, how do you beef up for the multi party dungeons like Kefkas tower and Phoenix Cave?

User Info: tonberrymasta

2 months ago#6
LazyWaysef posted...
I remember when I was a kid I desperately wanted to get to higher levels but wasn’t patient enough.

My favorite way to play the game is to get an all characters level 99 save with all spells learned and optimal equipment. To do this in a reasonable time frame I have to give up on stat boosting most of the cast, so I only stat boost 4 characters in the world of Ruin: Celes, Edgar, and Setzer are picked for boosting (because I have no choice but to get all three for the airship), and the fourth character I usually get is Locke (which is a LOT harder than it sounds because I have to complete the phoenix cave with one character in one party and two in the other). The reason for Locke as my fourth is I need him to get the Ragnarok sword and to work on converting Cursed Shield to the Paladin's shield which takes 255 battles.

Then the idea here is that I level all four characters up to level 90 doing available missions and grinding in the dinosaur forest without picking up ANY other characters until level 90 or so. This way when I do collect characters, they all join my party around level 90, so I only have to level them up a few times to max their level out (you could even wait until level 99 to get them at 99 with no leveling, but I like boosting a few stats like HP to give everyone 9999 HP for instance).

Main stat boosting I do is for Celes, to beat Chupon in the coloseum I boost Celes strength to 120, and use genji glove and offring with ragnarok/altima weapon to take it out in one turn. This gives Elixers which I can trade for rename cards and ultimately a pair of marvel shoes for each character in the endgame party. Then I get unlimited Ribbons stealing from the Brachiosaur (I just use control with Relm and then I can skip Relm's turn and attempt to steal with Locke as many times as I need without worrying about attacking).

Then basically yeah, I can just go around collecting the best equipment and maxing out everyone's spells with ease. It's not very hard, but still very satisfying, especially in Kefka's Tower when everyone is level 99 in all three parties.
(edited 2 months ago)

User Info: MEGAze

2 months ago#7
It's kind of difficult to rp since so much is linear, character-wise here. But my usual playthrough involves going through normally, grinding only when necessary, and giving VanishDoom to whoever I feel like making the badass of that run. I've only ever grinded in an RPG for Pokemon Diamond...for online reasons, mostly.
RebelOfDaNew: https://t2m.io/PF0B2HLT
DallasTheManipulator: https://t2m.io/VyVj1lT5

User Info: LazyWaysef

2 months ago#8
Very interesting optimization @tonberrymasta

Do you ever consider waiting til WoR to recruit Mog? He joins at +5 and you can delay that til WoR for even more ease since not only would he join at 95 but also bring the average up to 91 if you get him first.

@MEGAze Interesting, what level do you tend to end up at when you get to Kefkas Tower?
(edited 2 months ago)

User Info: tonberrymasta

2 months ago#9
LazyWaysef posted...

Do you ever consider waiting til WoR to recruit Mog? He joins at +5 and you can delay that til WoR for even more ease since not only would he join at 95 but also bring the average up to 91 if you get him first.

If you are trying to do a level 99 "get everything possible" run I don't think you can leave Mog because I think one of his dances is exclusive to the WoB (if I remember it right it is the water dance in the serpent trench that you can't get in the WoR). If you don't care about that, it might be interesting to bring him along as a fourth (that multi-jump accessory is really useful too).

I have left Mog in the WoB a few times (mainly to see if anything different happens after getting the golden hairpin), and I also didin't bother getting him when I did the minimal character run many years ago (i.e. just Celes, Edgar, and Setzer as 1 character parties when you go through Kefka's tower). Most of the time I pick him up just before completing the WoB though.

User Info: LazyWaysef

2 months ago#10
@tonberrymasta Aaahh of course, I forgot you mentioned that you were doing full completion, yes that’s true then.

Yeah I’m a big Mog fan so I wouldn’t leave him behind either unless it were part of a challenge.
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