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User Info: LazyWaysef

2 months ago#51

Yeah Maranda could have looked more devastated but it doesn’t look untouched by any means. I really liked the dog fights in town. Quite a nice touch. It showed that in many ways the soldiers themselves aren’t that happy in the empire either. They comment that this is the only means of recreation and are just hanging with the townsfolk.

Well yes but the problem with Gestahls empire was war. The citizens of Vector don’t all hate the empire. The people that hate them are those being subjugated by war. Basically war is at the core of Gestahls empire and inseparable from it. That said, I can’t say it isn’t entirely corny as a stand-alone line. The same idea could have been put better.

CT did a better job in 600 AD but in 1000 it’s a bit silly. Like how is Porre an independent nation that later is raised up by Dalton into a military force it’s basically a little village. FF6 is just more or less 1000 AD CT. FF7 did a better job. FF8 nailed it though. Esthar and Galbadia are very fleshed out and you feel different being in them.
Yep, the Setzer part is true indeed. When you get to Kohlingen in WoR. Make sure you talk to the Narshe Guard outside and the people at the cafe before you talk to Setzer and then talk to them again after Celes peps him up.

I don’t know if she meets Terra before but she meets her in Narshe and has a conversation about magic and isn’t it a wonderful gift etc. and yeah she said something about infused as a baby or something but also couldn’t have been before 2 since she and Terra are the same age and Terra was taken two years later after Maduin and wifey had her.

Yeah maybe magic doesn’t really work that way. However, I really like what they did with Ultimecia in FF8. Kefka should have had some powers added like nulling magic types e.g. Force Field, permanently disabling certain spells of yours, deleting your espers, nullifying magic equipment you’re wearing (like Lavos Core does). Would have been cool and in with his theme of the source of magic.

Yeah no further comment on this. I think that the mountain hideout is still well hidden but why they couldn’t see him on a plain idk.

The revenge is sort of implied and it’s mostly expressed through Sabin. Sabin and Edgar are implied to have similar motives but different ways of exacting them. So in the flashback Sabin vows revenge. I doubt Edgar feels differently.
If you want a cinematic treat, bring Sabin and Edgar to the opera house and magitek facility when Celes does her coin flip with Setzer and Sabin DOES find out.

Lol I guess you need Magitek for A/C 😂

No not the French but the policy of appeasement when Germany attacked the Sudetan and Rhine lands. During that, Britain and France did little because the memory of World War I was so fresh.

Yeah I still think he doesn’t care for Shadow at all. Also I don’t agree. Locke and Shadow are worlds apart. Locke is a firm good guy who’s a bit rough around the edges. Shadow is an assassin. Very different.

Yeah the Banon and Arvis traitor theory is interesting to think about but I don’t think it’s the case. More likely just not great writing.

User Info: MEGAze

1 month ago#52

Well, I guess. To me, it just signifies that they're a******s. I think, by that, this is what the game was trying to show. But you may have the correct interpretation...not to say every person in the Empire was bad, though. On another note, I'm not even sure Celes says anything when you go there. They had so many chances to enhance the lore of this game that would've required virtually no effort.

The reason I'd say it's put so lame is because Celes never sings this tune before. The only mentions she makes of "war" beforehand are in deriding herself for being useless to the Empire and deserving to die... which makes her shift very forced. Really, her shift is all over Locked. But Locke doesn't trust her, and they cut out an entire character arc she had where that'd be given more depth. So she, in truth, hates war because it makes her indirectly hurt Locke, whom she loves for no given reason. The pontificating is was makes it corny. Her being honest over needlessly hammy would've been much better writing.

I just don't acknowledge anything outside of SNES CT, to be honest. You can tell a sequel was never intended. Even Radical Dreamers. Porre's similarity/minor town status otherwise makes sense (at least imo), because >!it belonged to Guardia before the 600 AD war cut it off.!< I'm with you on FF8, though...it sure doesn't have characters, but it was a trade-off.

The only thing is, it sounds like they decided to leave all their interesting commentary in that one town. But better there than nowhere. Thanks, I'll make sure to do that. Far down the road, though...can you believe I'm still video editing.

>!I believe she met Terra before the game. I don't remember where exactly that's stated...but that'd make it weird, what you said. I always thought so, how she speaks to Celes as though they'd never met before. But it might be her personality, or that they'd never spoken in depth and only met on a superficial level.<! However, I don't think she knew about Terra's memory loss. A lot of the confusion about Terra's past stems from their being too lazy to have used a better sprite for her young self in-game. Her whole past is a writing negative to me. But I think Celes having it done before 2 is possible, considering Terra was born that way--Celes' past is another negative. But >!her being infused might be why she was treated better... overriding any inherent disloyalty until Locke comes in, unlike with Terra.<!

You might as well have, considering nothing comes after him and magic disappears anyway. Once again, Uematsu was the only guy doing his job, lol. Joking

I'm beginning to see why people say video game stories are a tier or two below novels. Then again, FF6 is a poor example.

That's two cases of bad writing, then--the first gripe wasn't expressed at all by Edgar, but his joking personality made it seem like his biggest conflict was now running the kingdom and nothing to do with the Empire. That aside, I don't think Sabin ever follows up on noticing the coin trick. I also don't remember how he could know that's the exact trick Edgar used, even if it were Edgar's coin.

You need Magitec for anything useful, apparently. And I see what you mean now. The issue is, I don't recall such a previous conflict in FF6. There were land grabs and other things by the Empire, but that never amounted to a conflict iirc. Let alone any repercussions placed on the Empire.

They were both thieves with peculiar parallels as far as how they dealt with loved ones. Among some other, small things--but you got it, 'cause I dislike both characters and wouldn't want to discuss them anyway, lol.

I take it you're on the side of FF6 having mediocre writing in general? I mean, straight forgetting characters is a pretty major offense.
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User Info: LazyWaysef

1 month ago#53

Yeah you’re right too though. It’s definitely supposed to be a seedy element. Kind of like in Albrook when they’re all at the bar. It also does humanize the soldiers some.
I think this was the last game where they didn’t have personalized dialogue for every character in situations where you can bring many. CT definitely had it as did every FF after and pretty much all RPGs. So personalized dialogue is very rare in FF6, it must have been a fairly novel thing.
I would have liked some more lore with Edgar in South Figaro, Celes in Maranda, maybe Cyan in Mobliz, Sabin with Gerad, Sabin and Cyan on the road with Gau, Personalized dialogue at all major events instead of generic “quote” dialogue, more Banon and Arvis follow up.

I dunno remember that she gets jailed for speaking out against Kefka and the poisoning and actually joins the Returners. Locke isn’t the absolute only reason. Also she goes to confront Gestahl on the FC where neither Terra or Locke have to be necessarily. It’s sort of the beginning of her story for the next couple of chapters.

Basically agree with you on all that. I like CC but I just treat it like a separate game. They should have set it 300 years in the future and then they could have done anything they wanted with Porre. Would have made it more interesting I think. You could learn about the characters from CT as legends rather than the way they did it. Agree on FF8 as well.

I know seriously lol Kohlingen got a lot of love for some reason. Yeah editing is tough man it’s a marathon not a sprint.

Yeah it’s very blurry for me, I think they have met obviously very vaguely. I just Remembered in the flashback where Gestahl is talking about the revival of magic and everyone is cheering, there’s Leo, Kefka, and Celes behind Gestahl with Terra in the corner. So they met on some tiny level before but the first exchange they seem to have is in Narshe. The reason I say Celes past 2 is because I don’t think they have Magitek before the raid on the esper world where Terra is taken. I think that’s when they get their first espers but maybe I’m making assumptions.

Lol yeah the very last showdown with Kefka, I mean I guess the tower counts but I would have liked it to be more fleshed out. The confrontation with Ultimecia was well done in general. I also like how when she goes to 0 HP, she says a line then you hit her and get another line. They should have done that with Kefka and given him some sort of final speech. It was one of my favorite parts of FF8.

Oh idk man you won’t get agreement there from me. I think video games tell the best stories. I like the minimalism and ability to fill in details. It makes me hungry to hunt for every scrap of lore. But I know it’s not a popular opinion and novels tell great stories too, it’s almost too much detail for me.

He does. On the blackjack if you bring him and Edgar. Celes grabs the coin from Edgar and tricks Setzer. Sabin goes “brother don’t tell me that’s THE coin” or something.

Well basically it’s like the Germans. When they were taking traditionally German land, everyone was like okay they’re just taking land that sort of makes sense plus we don’t want trouble. This is kind of like when Gestahl takes the southern continent.

Hahaa I’ll take it. Yeah I can tell you don’t like either.

No no I wouldn’t say that. I think it has good writing generally. I enjoy playing the plot, feel close to all the characters, I like the details they did include, and think it was a major step forward in gaming as a genre. But I’m taking the opportunity here with you to really analyze it an objective light and explore the deep flaws. And that’s enjoyable too.
(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: MEGAze

1 month ago#54

Now that you mention it, there's only one scene I can think of with individual dialogue, which is at the very end. Kind of sad, since it tears up the story at the expense of a few strings of code. Though, if anything, the imperial soldiers are at least more detailed than the Shinra soldiers...just barely. Maybe. But that scene is good development for their corrupting Maranda regardless.

Yes, but she's for the war until being jailed. Even then, she never states being against the war. She's a "proud general" until her capture. She only joins the Returners because Locke presses her to in spite of her suicidal attitude. As far as the FC, I'm just saying she's joined the team up until now to prove her goodness to Locke. At least, that's a large part of it. And even larger, why she stood around.

Yeah, the issue with CC is its complicated story but mainly the plot holes when compared to Trigger. Didn't even realize my dumbass was spoiler tagging Reddit style...was on my phone as well. But the point is CT set its world up better than FF6.

Do you have a channel?

There's one of the scenes, but I don't think Terra was free at that point. Terra had the slave crown on. But I'll look out for the scene. Also, is it possible the infusions came before Magitek itself? Even though both require magicite.

Some say Kefka's silence is indicative of his mind-state. It's probable, but the lack of buildup hurts the fight.

I prefer minimalism done well. I don't personally think novels are automatically better written than games, but FF6 makes a poor case for the latter.

What I mean is, why wouldn't Edgar act unknowing? There was no proof that that coin was the one he'd used back then. And Sabin, from what I remember, never follows up on it.

Okay, I see what you're saying. But the neutrality well into being attacked is a little different, though. Minus Doma.

Damn, so I'm probably overreaching, aren't I? Lol. For those who say FF6 is worse than 7, I now know why, though I was for FF6 before. But I give the better party system and the more items credit.
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(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: LazyWaysef

1 month ago#55
Yeah there’s a couple strewn about but what they definitely didn’t do was the dialogue hierarchy thing like some games have where each character has a speaking option. Yeah agreed, the Shinra soldiers felt less fleshed out to me. They actually explore various things with the FF6 soldiers. You see different personalities pre banquet, some are coerced, some really buy in to the empire. There’s that soldier chasing that girl around in Maranda, the soldiers in Albrook and Maranda having their crude simple fun, the injured lad that tried to escape but got beaten.

So mostly agree here but remember she got jailed for speaking out against the Empire, so she decided what they were doing was wrong, and then got jailed. She has this ongoing conflict between her sense of what’s good and her sense of what’s her duty. So she regrets being a traitor and looks down on herself for it. At the same time, she knows it’s the right decision. That’s why she’s all suicidal and then yes Locke is what turns her to good.

Yeah CT has its world at peace and there aren’t really nations per se, just humans and demons. Otherwise the world is peaceful. Very well made, particularly in 600 AD, the world feels very real to me with the war.

I do not, but I know some other people who have done vids and I remember how much effort they went through. I only have my one video on my channel. I may make more but it’ll probably be low amounts of editing if I do.

The infusions likely came before magitek. I remember in some discussion here, someone mentioned, or maybe it was the legends of localization guy tomatosan, that machines with magic is a new thing in the second war of the magi. So they sort of started off with the infusions, then Cid figured out how to also infuse robots. They would need Espers for both though. You’re definitely right about the slave crown.

Agreed, I mean I think the build up before is pretty good and the tower fight before him is nice, I just wish he interacted a bit more and wasn’t killable so quickly. Definite agreement that it hurts the fight.

Yeah I also like minimalism when it’s executed well. I think overall it is here but no problem, not like we have to agree on everything lol.

If you bring Edgar and Sabin, Sabin will definitely comment on it. That one line leads you to the conclusion that Sabin figures it out then. It’s an optional scene though so they couldn’t really follow up on it later.

Yeah I agree, once the empire stormed in with Magitek, it was unrealistically naive to stay out. There are leaders that freeze up in situations like that though but it’s still a bit of a stretch. Up to then, it was logical (although much less than heroic).

Yeah I still think I enjoy the flow of the story in FF6 better. I love FF7 too though don’t get me wrong. But the pace of the story is a bit weird, like it starts off fast, then after Kalm it’s like a country road trip for a while. There’s very cool parts sort of strung together by semi-aimless walking. Not to bash the game though, big fan of 7 as well.

User Info: MEGAze

1 month ago#56

Maybe the overall scale just feels smaller because of the 2D. I don't know...the games are about the same length, and the Empire is more major.

Thing is, unless I'm wrong, she was jailed for protesting Kefka's actions. Which would explain her ambivalence. If I'm wrong, I guess I'll find out soon enough. But her protesting Kefka would mean she was still loyal and was ashamed for betraying the Empire regardless, despite her personal lapse of "ice". The issue isn't too hard to back up, since Leo is probably more powerful than Gestahl in terms of popularity and strength for most of the game but was equally as brainwashed as Celes and so slumped in potential just like Celes.

600 AD is majestic and was basically your real home because of the jerks in 1000. CT is particularly special for having such tight writing with the time-jumping thing, at that. FF6 doesn't have to deal with multiple worlds, let alone in multiple planes. So the fact that the writing is looser makes it worse. But I'll harp off that, lol.

If you can just roll with it, it's no problem, imo. OCD and a serious YT account do not mix. So if you want everything to be perfect, have an editor or a day job...what is your video on?

Thanks, that's interesting. I knew exactly how long the Empire was probing and making minor moves before the second invasion officially began; I think that's where the crux of the answer would be explained. Maybe it'll come up again in the future. But I believe what you're saying, just not sure of the specific time period.

What do you mean by "interact"? Do you mean the discussion right before fighting him? I would say that's...okay, but it definitely could've been improved. More of those limitations with the tech, maybe. I am sorta glad he got easier than the previous bosses...but I don't play RPG's, so just bias.

Well, I'll say that FF6 does have minimalism. I guess it's subjective as to whether the lack of details is good or not. But when so many weird things happen with no acknowledgement of any kind, I view at least some of them as oversights.

All I'm getting at his he has no proof. He can assume correctly; but Edgar looks defeated, says nothing, and the subject is dropped. It's an awkward story beat that plays our like an Easter egg or "hidden extra". It doesn't lead anywhere in the narrative--it's a dead end.

Like, look at it this way...they fight off the Empire at first then hunt for Terra. Arvis, assuming he's just a regular Narshe guy, knows Terra's being mind controlled. This was not a recent thing with her, and the Narshe leadership should have as much intel as their Returner allies, including Terra's situation. Yet Terra comes back to Narshe and plans with the leader...who has no problem with her return or the Empire, apparently, because of this abrupt neutrality.

Oh yeah, FF6 for sure has a more fluent story. I can't complain about that at all. FF7 has a more intricate story with fewer plot holes, however. Aside from some major goofs with the pacing, I'd take FF7 all day. Red's side-story is forced and sucks, imo. Though, Costa Del Sol is a welcome break imo that can be over in 3 minutes if just you want to move on. And by the Temple, there are really no other pauses in the story.
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User Info: LazyWaysef

1 month ago#57

Yeah could be the case.

I think she says something like “how can you serve those cowards” to the jailer. It’s not clear what she did but it’s implied that while Kefka is the big part of it, she thinks the empire itself is also doing bad things. I do believe based on some dialogues and just the logic of the geography that Maranda was the last city to be taken and not long before the game starts (e.g. Lola still can’t get used to soldiers walking the streets of Maranda). Maybe the thoughts started bubbling up in Celes already post Maranda.

Lol well it does sort of have multiple worlds but you can’t jump between them.

My video is how to get 777 in the jet bike race in Chrono Trigger consistently. If you google 777 jet bike race you’ll see it.

Yeah agreed. The time period isn’t entirely clear. Also in the Woolsey translation, the machines are mentioned as having existed in the past too (Locke and his crazy grandma) but in the analysis he mentions that machines seem to not really be a part of the original script.

Ahh gotcha I love hard bosses. Idk I liked the pages from a self help booklet speech. He didn’t have to be difficult per se but just have some wacky unheard of before skills.

Yeah I agree there are definite oversights and I think also that other things were just left up to the imagination. I think we agree on those two points. Where we maybe disagree is the degree to which the oversights ruin the game.

It’s definitely an Easter egg for sure. But I don’t think anything more needed to be said. Sabin figures out that his brother cheated him because he’s a good guy who wanted Sabin to have his freedom guilt free. In modern games there might have been a long conversation but I don’t think it was necessary. The subtlety was a good thing.

Mmm I don’t think that’s exactly right though. Remember when you come back you have to sneak in because they won’t let the Magitek rider in and don’t even believe Edgar is the king of Figaro. After you sneak in and make contact with Arvis, he somehow gets you an audience with the mayor. Probably he uses the slave crown as proof.

Oh yeah I love Costa Del Sol. That’s such a pleasant place. Actually any sort of relaxing town or side quest is nice. What ruins pacing is usually a weird random dungeon quest. However, at this point I find that part charming about FF7 anyway. One of my favorite memories was playing with my gf this one morning and we did the Corel mountains. Typically this was not a place I attributed strong feelings towards one way or another but now it stands out in my head as a fun place. It does have an intricate story although idk about plot holes. I’ve never dug in as deep. I do love the story though, the twists are very nice.

Btw some further info on Celes’s power breeds war speech.


The original text is actually most close to the GBA edition. She doesn’t regret being born but it’s more a reflection on how people only get power to hurt others and it would be better if it didn’t exist. Less melodramatic than SNES FF3 gave us.

User Info: MEGAze

1 month ago#58
You also have the banquet and the scenes were they deal with the Floating Continent and the WoR. You saw some humanity in those--more would've been even better, but that's not to say games today don't have less characterization than that.

I'd have to see; but then it'd be weird she made no remarks about Maranda. Almost makes you wonder what order these sections were done in. Even still, they should've gone back to make sure things align.

It has the WoR, but that introduces many more problems with the "year" gap that CT evades by having time dilate to basically nothing whenever you leave a timezone.

I looked it up, and that's cool. I didn't know that'd even be possible to do without tool assisting or something, but that's mad skill. It does make sense you'd get something more for it. But it should be like 77 of each item, lol. They're common enough anyway. Or 77 tabs. I don't know who "Chugga" is, but it sounds like you're famous too. Guessing it would've been much more difficult to do on an emulator due to lag? My video is now complete as well, and of course the views went down again due to auditing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clXv2OxVMNc

I'm starting to very much dislike the Woolsey translation of FF6. It's still acceptable, but it's nowhere near CT's quality. And it's bringing in a lot of confusion when you try to actually analyze the game.

It's a good couple lines, but it doesn't really go anywhere. It's more like a "period" to his previous behaviors. To the extent it's played for laughs. So if you didn't already get what Kefka's problems were......this is part of why so many people today don't understand him as a character. Sort of like with Celes and Setzer: the speech is way too short to convince the drunkard like she does, yet the game showing all she's gone through makes up for it and gives it credibility. Though the game assumes Setzer's able to empathize with this just off her words alone, which hurts his development.

They don't ruin it, per se; I might even forget many of these as I continue through the game. But they make it harder to enjoy, narrative-wise, than a better-written story, when you're actually going over everything as an analysis. If that's not a priority, the gameplay and music alone make up for basically everything.

Eh, but Sabin's tone is one of disappointment, and Edgar's is one of shame. You can have them resolve their feelings without a conversation, but to ignore a follow-up completely means they'd presumably still feel how they did in that moment.

That "Edgar" thing is moronic. You're against the king coming in with Terra? What if he's captured her? As for the slave crown, that's fine. Some explanation like yours would've been nice for certain. But they still preach neutrality, knowing they've been attacked. They preach it--unquestionably, from what I remember.

Ah, the good old Corel mines. Never mind; you've got a point, there. It, I guess, gave you that adventurous feeling at first. But it's a very tedious break in the narrative overall with the encounter rate.

Is that the LoL guy? Well, forget what I've said then. Woolsey strikes again.

I mean, honestly, I'm critiquing this game off what we got, and they chose to hire him and give him those insane deadlines. It could've been better, but FF3 was simply our game. There are more versions with better writing, but those introduce their own problems. And the patches are unnatural. But I get what you're saying, again: that reads much better than the Shakespearean nonsense she was on in the original translation.
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User Info: MEGAze

1 month ago#59
I gave up on spoiler tagging btw. Lol...and now that I think about it, Duncan looks a lot like Banon....
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User Info: LazyWaysef

1 month ago#60

Agree totally, I like the gray area in games like that. I like that Kefka is pretty much just purely negative in his portrayal with no redemption and some of the good guys are like purely good and then a whole slew of people making up the middle. Makes it more interesting that way. The soldiers being a mix of psychopaths/warmongers and people coerced into duty or tricked by clever rhetoric. Very cool.

Yeah oftentimes things like that are problems because of different writers. A classic example is time travelers immunity in CT. It’s handled consistently in the game except for during the first quest with Yakra.

One thing I love about FF6, CT, and Breath of Fire 3 is the lack of urgency in the quests. FF7 always bothered me because I feel terrible sitting at the gold saucer when Meteor is looming. They all have different ways of handling it too. FF6 the bad guy already won and is more or less waiting for you to come. CT, well time isn’t an issue 😁. And Breath of Fire 3, the world is actually pretty happy and peaceful, just not free from its bounds. Always liked that so you can freely spend time grinding.

ChuggaConroy is just a more popular YouTuber who quoted my vid so in a way I did get some fame 😊. Yeah I discovered at some point that you can sort of manipulate the time by using whacks from the back. One whack from the back and then loop around is like +30 or something, two whacks is like basically flat with a slight increase and three makes you lose points. So then it was just a matter of time until I found the combo that works every time. I used an excel sheet lol.
Dude I have a surprisingly high interest in hearing your thoughts on that subject. I’ll check out the vid on my long 3 hour drives I do every week.

Yeah CT is a much tighter translation. However just remember without Woolseys translation, Kefka as we know him wouldn’t exist so we always must thank him for that. He was a pretty boring generic villain in the original who just spoke a bit like a little kid. Apparently Locke and Frog both got a similar treatment. The originals were a bit more rude and tough guy-esque. Don’t know which I would have preferred.

To be fair, Setzer was fairly easy to convince the first time. She just had to wake the sleeping adventurer within him 😁 but you’re right it’s justified by your struggle. Idk though I think it’s good. Kefka wouldn’t share his motivations with you beyond what he says there and I like his callous dismissal of your hopes and dreams. But there’s probably a middle ground that would have been better.

In general, analyzing a work has a high chance of detracting from it. For me not really. I love analyzing and after the initial shock of my beloved work not being perfect, it’s nice to discuss with someone who is genre savvy. I had a discussion with a friend about FF6 and he just said such stupid things about it that it wasn’t enjoyable so it’s not always fun lol.
There are some plot holes that just totally ruin a work for people. It’s interesting for example how much less I play games like Icewind Dale II after learning studded leather armor wasn’t a real thing. Dunno why lol.

I don’t think he’s so much disappointed as he is making a realization in that moment. But sure I wish it had been explored further. I guess they didn’t want to waste precious programming time on an Easter egg that builds on an Easter egg you only may have seen. In a perfect world though I want four layers of Easter eggs 😄

Yeah it’s a little silly I agree. Also Narshe being in like martial law but also neutral. It’s a little silly overall. I love that portion of the game and sneaking into Narshe so I give it a bit of a pass but maybe if the guy had said something like “I’m sorry King Edgar, I’ve been ordered not to let anyone in, I am just doing my job” instead of like assaulting him. Then again the Narshe guards are seen as being a bit harsh in other scenes too (until they’re on your side anyway then they never do anything like that ever again).

Yeah for me it always was too. Junon is a tight sequence then you get the creepy Sephiroth encounter on the ship and then a break in Costa Del Sol and then... a long trip through the mountains. But on this playthrough I had, it was reborn in a new light.

The one and the same lol. I know. It’s like every time I wanna defend a line or criticize a line I’m like... wait was that in the original script?

Yeah it’s not to say that criticisms of the FF3 SNES aren’t what counts but it’s also fun to dig into the layers sometimes. Particularly when something is ambiguous and you want to learn what they intended. In this case it’s not ambiguous just wrong lol.

The Duncan / Banon theory is pretty legit. Sabin just forgot what Duncan looked like since it’s been a year and everyone forgot about Banon after Vector anyway 😂. Yeah I give up on them too lol. It was an admirable effort on your part though to keep spoiler tagging as long as you did.
(edited 1 month ago)
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