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  3. Why does SE seem to treat Locke more like a secondary Character?

User Info: tsunaxsawada10

tsunaxsawada10
2 months ago#1
While FFVI has ensemble cast. I always see Celes more of a secondary while Terra as the Main character. Locke is more of a third.

But i just get the feeling that Locke is treated more of a secondary. I just made this assumption due to his appearance and role in Dissidia NT and Dissidia OO, and how there's a new Locke unit in FFBE alongside CG Terra.

I dunno. Does anybody seem to notice or it is just me? Probably just me.
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User Info: SuperSaiyanTien

SuperSaiyanTien
2 months ago#2
Probably because he is the main male. Like when you think of FF6 and male character, I'm sure Locke comes to mind.

Yes, in the story Celes is up there with Terra. But people usually think of things as a lead male and lead female role and as such Locke is bumped up with Terra, Celes is reduced to Third.
"Have you by any chance started a college fund for precious little Dispatch? do you pay him a $20/week allowance just to loaf about?" - Assassin17

User Info: tsunaxsawada10

tsunaxsawada10
2 months ago#3
SuperSaiyanTien posted...
Probably because he is the main male. Like when you think of FF6 and male character, I'm sure Locke comes to mind.

Yes, in the story Celes is up there with Terra. But people usually think of things as a lead male and lead female role and as such Locke is bumped up with Terra, Celes is reduced to Third.


Didn't of it that way. How sad since it's Celes who i really want to see more often. I'm saying Locke is bad but i found Celes much better than Locke in character and story even though Celes is connected to Locke. The male protagonist role did give Locke a better chance of showing up in other FF titles.

I hope i get to see Celes in HD. Maybe Dissidia NT. Now that i think of it, didn't they have the problem in not having enough female characters in Dissidia? Celes would be a better candidate if they ever plan to add more female characters for Dissidia. Just a thought.
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User Info: Ecclesiastes273

Ecclesiastes273
2 months ago#4
He's easily the most prominent character besides the two girls, and is used as a pivot between them. He probably Celes in major screentime, too, Solitary Island aside.

The thing with Celes is she's somewhat redundant with Terra in being "girl with a sword who uses magic", while Locke differentiates himself as an Indiana Jones wannabe with almost as many weapons as Firion. Not that this matters much when Dissidia turns everyone into floaty Advent Children characters.
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User Info: BreakevenCloud

BreakevenCloud
2 months ago#5
Celes = Terra = Locke = Edgar imo. Those are def the stars of the show.
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User Info: MEGAze

MEGAze
2 months ago#6
BreakevenCloud posted...
Celes = Terra = Locke = Edgar imo. Those are def the stars of the show.
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User Info: MeepleLardicle

MeepleLardicle
2 months ago#7
First off, FF6 isn't as much an ensemble as people try to pretend, at least in the first half. The WoR is an ensemble, sure, but then the WoR has no central narrative beyond "Kill Kefka" and it's all focused on character arcs.

That said, Locke is regarded as the #2 because if you analyze the story, Celes really isn't nearly as big as people pretend she is. It's really just the start of the WoR and that was entirely done because she was Kitase's favorite character (he literally said that's the reason she started the WoR.) She only lasts a little longer than most before fading into the Ensemble because she's the first one and it takes time. Once the Airship is gotten, her entire role in the story is finished, and she's used mostly for stock dialog or full party sequences.

Locke, meanwhile, completely crushes her in terms of overall importance in the WoB, where the plot is actually, you know, a plot and not just a common end-goal for the characters with a bunch of character arcs finishing.
Consider that Locke is introduced significantly earlier in the game, and Celes' introduction only happens through a Locke-centric section. Now consider that until the Floating Continent, just about every meaningful Celes sequence involves Locke notably in some form or other. The reverse isn't true.

Which leads to a major aspect of Celes' character people often overlook:

Celes' character hinges heavily on Locke basically the entire game, the Floating Continent is pretty much the only exception. If you don't believe me, consider the following:

-Celes is introduced through Locke's scenario, and only joins because Locke twists her arm (she was actually willing to die for her pride until Locke convinces her that's stupid.)
-Locke is in every major Celes segment as I noted, the reverse isn't true.
-Celes' big moment in the WoR is her finding Locke's bandana, and that's basically her most treasured object as well...you the thing she almost kills herself over in the ending? Locke's big moment is Rachel simply telling him to move on with his life. Celes makes it easier, but she's not integral for Locke's story to work. This is because Locke's story is about refusing to let go of the past and move on, Celes' story is one of finding someone who will accept her for who she is (Celes the person), as opposed to what she is (Celes the General.) If you think I'm full of it, consider their "Self Help Booklet lines":

Locke: I've learned to celebrate life and the living
Celes: I have found someone who can respect me for who I am.

Locke's being general, Celes is no doubt talking about Locke (not mentioned by name, but it's freaking obvious.)

-The marketing angle as well. Locke was marketed as this #2 (behind Terra) back when FF6 was new. Case in point, they made this VHS which was about the FF6 devs going through the FF6 world, and the primary tour guides? Terra and Locke.

-Superficial, but still there: Locke has the highest line count of any FF6 character, and depending on how you count scenes, he might win in terms of raw number of scenes.

And I will say one thing:

No, Edgar isn't anything close to a major character, he's pretty much the definition of a prominent supporting character. He's never central, and always there to be "The smart guy with the right thing to say." That's his character. People often over look this because he joins early in both the WoB and WoR, even though he doesn't really do a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. Pretending he's on Locke's level is ridiculous.
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User Info: MeepleLardicle

MeepleLardicle
2 months ago#8
I hope i get to see Celes in HD. Maybe Dissidia NT. Now that i think of it, didn't they have the problem in not having enough female characters in Dissidia? Celes would be a better candidate if they ever plan to add more female characters for Dissidia. Just a thought.


I'll be honest:

Celes is an awful character idea to represent FF6 for another character, at least when Terra's already there anyway. Saying "But because she's female" doesn't really work so well, as FF6 already has a female present for starters, and they could easily get females from various other games (Ashe, serah, basically everyone meaningful from FF11, Alisaie and Lyse from FF14, etc.)

The other issue is Celes' identity as a fighter is...kind of non-existent. She's basically summed up as "Magical Swordgirl from the Empire" but that's literally Terra's exact description. UNlike Celes, "Trance" is an easy to adapt factor, Celes' big trademark move, Runic, doesn't really lend itself to a fighting game.

Put another way...
FF6 has a huge diverse cast of characters. We have a Monk who can fire DBZ-style ki blasts, a Machinist King, a Ninja w/ an Attack Dog, a Gambler, a girl who can draw things and murder stuff with it, and an Old Man Blue Mage...
...and you want to put the character who is almost identical to another character in the game already?

When you look at other sources, Celes' character is kind of a mess in terms of fighting style. They basically go "She has Runic and...?" Heck, look at DFFOO:

Her moves are Runic (obviously) and some...what is basically her version of WoL's "Shining Wave." It's not a personality thing, and it certainly doesn't tie into her "Magitek Knight" thing; it really comes off as "they're trying their hardest to differentiate her from Terra, and beyond Runic, they have no idea what to do." And you can't even say they're uncreative here, seeing as they managed to translate the FF14 Red Mage incredibly faithfully through Alisaie in such a limited environment, and that's NOT something that can be easily done.

That's really the issue: If you just break Celes down to what her fighting style, she's an awful rep of FF6 when Terra's already there, since then you're actually doing FF6 a DISSERVICE. Rather than relying one of the many unique and diverse characters, you're going with another "Blonde Swordgirl Soldier w/ Magic." I honestly won't be shocked if Terra's next outfit in Dissidia NT (they confirmed everyone is getting a 3rd costume) is a Celes cosplay (PROBABLY won't be though; they'll probably do one of her Duodecim Outfits.)

And before someone goes "but Zack could be put in alongside Cloud" let me note that Zack has an entire game where in his fighting style is completely differentiated from Cloud. Celes has no such thing.
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(edited 2 months ago)

User Info: tsunaxsawada10

tsunaxsawada10
2 months ago#9
MeepleLardicle posted...
The other issue is Celes' identity as a fighter is...kind of non-existent. She's basically summed up as "Magical Swordgirl from the Empire" but that's literally Terra's exact description. UNlike Celes, "Trance" is an easy to adapt factor, Celes' big trademark move, Runic, doesn't really lend itself to a fighting game.


If they can make both Zidane and Locke's Steal/Mug ability different then it's possible they'll find a way to make runic work. Maybe something like, with each attack consumed while runic is active may get to convert to bravery.

MeepleLardicle posted...
she's an awful rep of FF6 when Terra's already there, since then you're actually doing FF6 a DISSERVICE. Rather than relying one of the many unique and diverse characters, you're going with another "Blonde Swordgirl Soldier w/ Magic." I honestly won't be shocked if Terra's next outfit in Dissidia NT (they confirmed everyone is getting a 3rd costume) is a Celes cosplay (PROBABLY won't be though; they'll probably do one of her Duodecim Outfits.)


Terra's 3rd alt is called "The Espers progeny", probably not the same skin as her 3rd skin on Dissidia 012. Celes being her other alt skin is just impossible. Most people like Celes, so having her for a skin is bad, and Terra's Moveset still slightly different from Celes. Atleast Ultimecia having Edea skin is explainable and fits so well since Edea is also a witch. Celes on the otherhand only has magic attack that makes her similar to Terra. Other then that, the two is different from each other. Everything is m different, from her personality, mannerisms, and her few skills like spinning edge.
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(edited 2 months ago)

User Info: SuperSaiyanTien

SuperSaiyanTien
2 months ago#10
MeepleLardicle posted...
Celes really isn't nearly as big as people pretend she is. It's really just the start of the WoR and that was entirely done because she was Kitase's favorite character (he literally said that's the reason she started the WoR.)


You always use this point as something to detract from Celes' character when it has little relevance. Kitase selected her because she was his favorite. Writers do that all of the time. They write a story and have a plan for a specific character but then they change it to where that character gets more focus than others or a character is introduced and not killed off because they enjoy them too much. See Mr. Weasley in Harry Potter or Spike from Buffy.

But that doesn't make the story ending up as it does incorrect or less than it is. In the world we live in Kitase chose Celes to start the WoR, cementing her plot relevance and making her a secondary main character in a lot of people's eyes.


She only lasts a little longer than most before fading into the Ensemble because she's the first one and it takes time. Once the Airship is gotten, her entire role in the story is finished, and she's used mostly for stock dialog or full party sequences.


Gameplay =/= Story

Celes being able to be removed from your party is gameplay not plot. They wanted part two to be an ensemble but it makes no sense for Celes to not be in your party the whole time. She is the one who convinces Edgar and Setzer to join which provide the party with methods of transportation. She is the primary driving force between looking for Locke whom is (arguably) the most prominent male in the cast. It makes very little sense to have a party of Gogo, Mog, and Umaro looking for their friends.

Celes makes the most logical sense to keep in your party as she has ties to the important characters from Part 1.

But I agree with your point about two female spellcasters with swords being redundant. Plus her fighting style is not...unique enough, thus Terra is gets the spotlight as she is the first character you get and what most people attribute to FF6.
"Have you by any chance started a college fund for precious little Dispatch? do you pay him a $20/week allowance just to loaf about?" - Assassin17
(edited 2 months ago)
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