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Laclongquan 3 years ago#61
1. I dont play shapeshifting druids. It make me losing interest. Caster, sure, but not transform.

2. Targos is, yeah, easy. Super goblins are not super at all. But the Shaergane's ford area Malarite High Priest and arctic boar can hit you pretty hard because they are very very versatile compared to super goblins and orcs. They can hit hard, stay long, and cast Rainstorms which illicit AoE lightning damage.

3. Also if we cheat in wizards spells like that it would make us losing interests unexpectly fast. I know, because the first run with IWD2 I abandoned it that way. Wizards in IWD2 is OP, thus the devs had to arrange for the scarcity of spell scrolls.

4. If you play with only divine casters with 6-7 tier, you dont have enough spells. You only have Flaming Strike with okay radius, and Glyph of Warding wont defeat their saves often enough.
Bloody ass you all, I love The Wheel of Time series https://teespring.com/stores/the-wheel-of-time-tshirt
SwordMagess 3 years ago#62
1. I suggested the wizard spell learning progression for those who specifically want to use a wizard. For those who just want access to the wizard/sorcerer spell list, they can take a sorcerer instead.

2. Icewind Dale 2
(a) is linear;
(b) has a set of specific encounters;
(c) has mostly encounters where the problem is killing the opposition, with most of the rest being diplomacy check related
(d) arranges fights such that the party fights large mobs of weaker individuals almost continuously.

Under these circumstances, the wizard's ability to swap out spells is not nearly as large of an advantage over the sorcerer as in tabletop. In many instances the sorcerer's ability to cast more spells per day is more valuable, and in parties other than a 6 man standard start the sorcerer likely gains access to spells faster because of scroll locations.

3. You are underestimating the buffs that a high level caster brings to the table. Consider this:

a. At caster level 13, your druid has enough Barkskin to buff the entire front line at +5 generic AC. At caster level 4-5, your druid probably can only buff 1 front liner for +3 generic AC.
b. At caster level 13, your sorcerer and bard can liberally cast Ghost Armor for +5 deflection AC. At caster level 4-5, your sorcerer and bard do not even know Ghost Armor, and your wizard likely has not found the scroll. They instead have to settle for Magic Circle Against Evil for +2 deflection AC.
c. At caster level 13, you can liberally cast Emotion: Hope, Prayer, Recitation, for +5 to hit, and you have much higher BAB than at level 4-5 (8-9 for full BAB and 6 for 3/4 BAB). You can turn Expertise up to 5 and still reliably land most hits.
d. At caster level 13, your sorcerer and bard can liberally cast Spirit Armor for +6 armor AC for those who cannot wear medium or heavy armor. At caster level 4-5, they are stuck with Mage Armor for +4 armor AC.
e. At caster level 13, your sorcerer can liberally cast Stoneskin on your front liner, and your cleric can cast Ironskin on himself.
f. At caster level 13, your sorcerer can cast Mass Haste several times for an extra attack and +4 generic AC when facing high powered groups.

All of these perks mean you are working with a party that has 35-40 AC and 10 damage reduction for basic sword and shield front liner builds, compared to 20-25 AC if you are level 4-5, with one reaching perhaps 30. Or put AC buffs on a sorcerer and have him walk into a mob with Mirror Image active and start dropping Sunfire/Fireball/other nukes.

4. Level 5 sorcerer/wizard spells are filled with awesome BFC spells: Chaos at -4 save for large mobs, Feeblemind at -2 save for casters, Dominate Person for powerful fighters with poor will saves, Cloudkill. In most encounters you can cast Chaos once then have your melee mop up.

These are just some things that can be generically splashed into a party with low optimization. It does not use optimization tricks like a deep gnome illusionist decoy or monk 1 dip for high AC and greateaxe, nor does it rely on Animate Dead cheese. Really, there are many ways to deal with mobs when you have ECL 13 characters, the vast majority of which do not require you to have a wizard with access to high level spells.
Assamite Law: In any game where there are no monsters [...], the players will be stalked by assassins with alarming consistency. - RPG Cliche List
Laclongquan 3 years ago#63
Your tactic require a massive preparation phase: Barkskin (x6) Ghost/Spirit Armor (x6) Bless, Hope, Prayer, Recitation, Magic Circle Against Evil, Stoneskin/IronSkin, Mass Haste.

This will make you tired and uninterested in playing pretty fast. I know this because I did it before and abandon the game before. You can't just expect an interesting run that way. Same with minmax munchkin builds (72AC? Bah!)

About 4 rounds of casting for preparation, only. That is about the amount of time that provide enough buffs without feeling like a chore, barely. With that I can stand to do once per map and keep me refresh to play the game.
FCleric: Prayer, Recitation, Ironskin, Aid
Cleric: Magic Circle Against Evil, IronSkin, Aidx2
Wizard: MassHaste, Executioner Eyes, Mordekainen Sword, stoneskin or improved invisibility for melee
Bard: Hope, spirit armor (x3)

The frontliners get most singletarget buffs. The rest eat AoE buffs and hope for the best.

Sure, it's dangerous and probabbly can get your back rank killed if you dont concentrate. But at least a reload is better than abandonment.
Bloody ass you all, I love The Wheel of Time series https://teespring.com/stores/the-wheel-of-time-tshirt
SwordMagess 3 years ago#64
Laclongquan posted...
Your tactic require a massive preparation phase: Barkskin (x6) Ghost/Spirit Armor (x6) Bless, Hope, Prayer, Recitation, Magic Circle Against Evil, Stoneskin/IronSkin, Mass Haste.

No, it does not.

Barkskin, Ghost Armor, and Spirit Armor only go on the front liner--notice I wrote "for basic sword and shield front liner builds". In the standard adventuring party (tank, utility, healer, mage), there is only 1 front liner. In ergavari's UPP, there are 2-3, with the Lathander cleric being primarily a nuker. In Jukka's UPP, there are at most 2. If you want to play with 6 front liners, that is your choice, and it is a minority choice.

Magic Circle Against Evil is +2 Deflection AC. Ghost Armor is +5. It is either or, not both.

Mass Haste, Prayer, and Recitation can be used during battles. They have short duration, and Prayer and Recitation further decrease the enemies' to hit, effectively giving +3 to AC.
Assamite Law: In any game where there are no monsters [...], the players will be stalked by assassins with alarming consistency. - RPG Cliche List
Laclongquan 3 years ago#65
In-battle casting is tricky. you either cast some disabling spell (AoE or single) or damage spells. If you cast buff in battle your casters have too low level. In which case spell slots best saved for damage or disabling spells, not buff (or they would be useless in a fight). Recitation is a okay choice either way: half of the time I would cast beforehands just so dont have to cast it in battle, in which case I can cast a damaging spell like Flaming Strike instead~. Because cleric's time in battle is tightly managed.

I dont do both UPP or JUPP builds, because I once abandoned a game precisely due of that. In the same way I dont do Druid transformation~ Keeping interest in IWD2 is not easy.

To be more longwinded, if you have only one frontliner (with maybe summons as meatshield) you will be too limited in a melee fight. If it's a shield warrior, his damage will be one hand, thus not big enough. If it's a 2hander, his defense will be quite weakened. And in either case you have too weak an option to use for attack OR defense. You must have both abilities, with emergency heal inbattle . Which is why my F4Paladin is the front to attract damage, while the F4Cleric is slightly behind with his halberd. This way, we can use the melee duo as a tactical component for both offense and defense.
Bloody ass you all, I love The Wheel of Time series https://teespring.com/stores/the-wheel-of-time-tshirt
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