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  3. Does WoW need an overhaul on the scale of "A Realm Reborn"?

User Info: The_Abhorrent

The_Abhorrent
1 month ago#1
Does WoW need an ARR-scale overhaul?





Just a question I've been wondering for a while now, but I suppose some context is needed.

Everyone these days knows the tale, Final Fantasy XIV 1.0 was an unmitigated disaster and dealt serious harm to the FF brand and Square Enix's reputation as a whole... so they blew up the game and rebuilt it from scratch to not just save the game, but start building up the company's goodwill and reputation again. The net result was "A Realm Reborn" (ARR), which has slowly grown FFXIV and made for one hell of a comeback story... and the rest is history.

Looking at WoW... well, it's looking awful. The game is nowhere near as bad as FFXIV 1.0, that much is true... but Blizz' reputation has all but hit rock bottom. I was mostly mentioning this before the current scandal, but with the damage it has wrought the damage to the brand is VERY clear to me.

But this isn't really a thread about how to resolve the scandal, which we can assume is starting to be worked out at this point. In my opinion, Blizzard really does need to salvage their reputation following two poorly-received expansions and the havoc wreaked by this scandal; considering WoW is their flagship product, a revamp of the game not unlike ARR (in terms of scale, not necessarily to resemble FFXIV's current design) is more needed than ever. It may or may not be a "WoW 2", but that wouldn't be too far off the mark; such a revamp could also address issues like the aging engine and architecture of the game.

Just to get the topic out there, I have seen some mention that a "WoW 2" (or other similar ideas) would not solve the issues with the game because of the direction of those presently in-charge... which is definitely a legitimate concern, not to mention it would almost certainly be a guaranteed flop out of the gate is they leaned too much on their monetization model. But for the moment, I would like to assume that such a revamp would be done in earnest with the intent of salvaging their reputation.

So then... does WoW need an ARR-scale overhaul/revamp to start rebuilding the game and salvaging their reputation?
He who isn't afraid to stand by his ideals...
Isn't afraid to stand alone.

User Info: UnrivaledKoopa

UnrivaledKoopa
1 month ago#2
I really don’t think that’s the answer. Honestly scrapping everything and making a worse version of it is kind of their pattern so far, so I don’t think this would be any different. Like how the Heart of Azeroth was just a worse artifact, or covenants are worse class halls.

Id rather they build on top of what works rather than scrapping it as borrowed power and starting over.
I never wanted to be a serial killer, anyway.
I wanted to be... a LUMBERJACK! - Dexter Morgan

User Info: nominturddaddy

nominturddaddy
1 month ago#3
What an overreaction that would be. They could easily turn things around for unhappy people like they did with Legion, which is what got me to come back after barely playing Cata and MoP and skipping WoD entirely. If you played FFXIV preARR you know how truly bad it was. Setting up an account itself was an ordeal, a sign of the gameplay soon to come. Aside from my raid team I'm happy with the current state of WoW, least time investment required per week to be raid ready. I'll unsub when I get bored though, which is usually 3 - 4 months after major patch release. I also played both WoW and FFXIV for a while and preferred WoW, so really don't know how much there is to learn from a game that based its rebuild on WoW.

I guess I could say they could create a new activity to replace M+ since it's so boring. I run enough 5 mans getting geared for raids, like I want to keep doing them a whole xpac. It was novel in Legion (MoP had challenge dungeons but just for an xmog), now it's a really boring alternate route to gearing if you don't raid. I just don't do it anymore, optional as a mid-tier raider.
(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: The_Abhorrent

The_Abhorrent
1 month ago#4
UnrivaledKoopa posted...
I really don’t think that’s the answer. Honestly scrapping everything and making a worse version of it is kind of their pattern so far, so I don’t think this would be any different. Like how the Heart of Azeroth was just a worse artifact, or covenants are worse class halls.

Id rather they build on top of what works rather than scrapping it as borrowed power and starting over.

It's definitely one of the big issues, there's not a lot of reason to trust the development team right now (even before the scandal)... so there should at least be some (hypothetical) belief that if they go down this route, it will be with the intent of rebuilding their reputation based on real lessons learned rather that just another repeat of the same mistakes.

... but yes, a repeat of those errors and/or the end result being even worse would be an unmitigated disaster. The question is if they are at the point where the only way out of WoW's current situation is taking a risk on the same scale of ARR with making an overhaul/revamp the only way to save the game now?

There's also the matter of if there's the will, resources, and ability to pull this off (right now, there probably isn't)... it kind of looks like the WoW team will need someone who can pull off what Yoshi-P did.

nominturddaddy posted...
What an overreaction that would be. They could easily turn things around for unhappy people like they did with Legion, which is what got me to come back after barely playing Cata and MoP and skipping WoD entirely. If you played FFXIV preARR you know how truly bad it was. Setting up an account itself was an ordeal, a sign of the gameplay soon to come. Aside from my raid team I'm happy with the current state of WoW, least time investment required per week to be raid ready. I'll unsub when I get bored though, which is usually 3 - 4 months after major patch release.

As noted in the original post, WoW isn't as bad as FFXIV 1.0; the game isn't THAT broken.
However, Blizzard's reputation is in just as bad a spot as SE's was at that time. Possibly worse with the recent scandal.

Such an endeavor would have to be about salvaging their brand and reputation, not just "fixing the game". The general reception of Shadowlands is ample evidence to this; it fixed a lot of the issues with BfA (or at least reduced how much of a problem they were)... but it wasn't enough.

Whatever comes next, it has to amaze people; being "okay" or even "good" isn't enough, anything short of a masterpiece will be a disappointment at best. With all the skepticism and doubt surrounding Blizzard right now, it will be an uphill battle no matter what. Does that mean an ARR-scale overhaul? Or can it be done with the existing engine and software architecture? Would it be easier to resolve if you started out with a new engine?

nominturddaddy posted...
I also played both WoW and FFXIV for a while and preferred WoW, so really don't know how much there is to learn from a game that based its rebuild on WoW.

I am mostly using ARR to represent the scale of the effort, and possibly as an example of the systems that WoW removed that still work because FFXIV decided to keep them going forward. I'm not saying WoW should become a story-driven RPG (at least not with the current story direction & writers), just running under the idea that the WoW needs to make a similarly monumental effort.

... though for specific things to learn, how to communicate with players is definitely a big one.
He who isn't afraid to stand by his ideals...
Isn't afraid to stand alone.

User Info: nominturddaddy

nominturddaddy
1 month ago#5
They used to communicate with players more often but quit, supposedly due to toxic responses. I agree that isn't healthy, it creates a "We make it and you like it or you don't" atmosphere. Luckily I mostly like it.
(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: MajinUltima

MajinUltima
1 month ago#6
It cannot be saved while Activision holds the IP.
This is like Square-Enix NA and Avengers vs Square-Enix JP and FF14.
A big money NA game dev will admit no fault and will double down (and octuple down by now) on the many mistakes they've made.

The current scandal is a weird situation because it's aimed at basically any remnants of old Blizzard who didn't jump ship. And reminder the validity of accusations and facts is to be determined in court and with professional investigation, not some twitter dogpile. And even that gives way to much credit to the judiciary, especially in a state like California.
Either way, by the time this is said and done, either Blizzard IPs are going to be thrown in the trash, or they'll be put in the hands of... let's just say people with very political priorities who see anything which exists as a platform for their politics. Not that the hiring hasn't done a lot of that already.
On the gameplay side, I expect a major shift toward mobile and further monetization. You saw how shameless they were with TBC Classic.
Herein I commit the chronicle of the traveler. Shepherd to the stars in the dark. Where you walk, my dearest friend, fate shall surely follow.

User Info: Voodoo_Voldo

Voodoo_Voldo
1 month ago#7
Yeah. may as well just bomb the whole game Cataclysm style.... Honestly it wouldnt hurt to do it to shake up some factions/allegiances (or do away with them completely?)

Gladiator's Resolve must live on!

User Info: Amalaric

Amalaric
1 month ago#8
I definitively think they need to totally restructure the way content is developed. We just keep getting half-cooked half-assed poorly balanced content and systems that take multiple patches to fix. Then when its finally "fixed", they throw it all in the trash to develop "new" stuff for the next expansion. And then the cycle continues.

I also very much dislike the seasonable approach they have adopted. Every patch now makes the previous patches content like 95% useless. It makes the game feel so much smaller imo
She's like the sunrise. Outshines the moon at night. Precious like starlight, she'll bring in a murderous price

User Info: nominturddaddy

nominturddaddy
1 month ago#9
Seasons have always existed, they just used to call them tiers. I still do 9.0 callings, easy gold.
(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: Amakusa

Amakusa
1 month ago#10
MajinUltima posted...


The current scandal is a weird situation because it's aimed at basically any remnants of old Blizzard who didn't jump ship.
The current scandal is also demonstrating why the players can't be trusted either. What's particularly telling is Activision Publishing was named a party of the suit (which, if it wasn't named specifically, seems almost tangential) and almost everyone ignored it in favor of believing the suit is 100% Blizzard.
I will rule the world, and find that truly good cup of coffee.
(edited 1 month ago)
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