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User Info: mitsguy2001

mitsguy2001
6 months ago#1
It would be interesting to discuss, in general, the priority order for spells from each level. For each level of spell, I will list all of the spells, in order from most to least important. This is assuming the original NES version (with bugged spells), and is assuming a traditional Fighter, Black Belt, White Mage, Black Mage party, or, any party with 1 White Mage and 1 Black Mage. Unless I say otherwise, the first 3 spells are all worth learning. It would be interesting to hear where others agree and disagree:

White Magic:
Level 1: CURE, HARM, RUSE, FOG
Level 2: INVS, ALIT, MUTE, LAMP
Level 3: CUR2, HRM2, AFIR, HEAL
Level 4: AICE, PURE, FEAR, AMUT (only AICE is worth getting. Possibly PURE)
Level 5: LIFE, CUR3, HRM3, HEL2 (but with the bug, HEL2 may be worth getting, although it's not clear whether CUR3 or HRM3 should be the one that you skip in that case)
Level 6: EXIT, INV2, FOG2, SOFT
Level 7: CUR4, HRM4, ARUB, HEL3
Level 8: LIF2, FADE, WALL, XFER

Black Magic:
Level 1: FIRE, LIT, SLEP, LOCK (SLEP can probably be skipped since it's bugged)
Level 2: ICE, SLOW, DARK, TMPR (only ICE and SLOW are important)
Level 3: FIRE2, LIT2, HOLD, LOK2
Level 4: FAST, ICE2, CONF, SLP2 (only FAST and ICE2 are important)
Level 5: WARP, FIR3, QAKE, SLO2 (QAKE isn't important, but isn't the worst spell either)
Level 6: LIT3, BANE, STUN, RUB (Only LIT3 is important. BANE is decent, STUN isn't necessary, and RUB is useless)
Level 7: ICE3, BRAK, BLND, SABR (Only ICE3 is important. BRAK is useful for 1 fight. BLND isn't necessary, and SABR does nothing)
Level 8: NUKE, ZAP!, STOP, XXXX (Only NUKE is important. ZAP! and STOP are optional)

What does everybody think?

User Info: beege_man

beege_man
6 months ago#2
There have been a few topics discussing this previously. Here are two that might have some good discussions in it:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/522595-final-fantasy/68785069
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/522595-final-fantasy/56414812
L43 474/474 9/9/9/8/8/8/7/7 Int/MDef: 57/104
HDCEA: 114-109-104/51-53-46/3-4-6.5/83/43(37) Resist: Ice/(Fire)/(Lit)/Death AtkElem: Ice-Fire-Coral
(edited 6 months ago)

User Info: BareknuckleRoo

BareknuckleRoo
6 months ago#3
in order from most to least important.

Level 1: CURE, HARM, RUSE, FOG

You've put the most useful level 1 spell and one of the most useful buff spells in the entire game as the 3rd most useful. It's also the spell the Red Mage generally saves a spell slot for to get after class change because it's just that useful. Fog is also arguably more useful than Harm is late game when multiple Light Axes and a Mage Staff are available. A spell's usefulness can change depending on whether it's early to late game, and depending on the rest of the team composition. Harm for instance is extremely useful early on, but largely irrelevant late game, whereas Cure is both useful early and late game, but can be substituted with Heal Potions if you want Harm for undead killing early on, which is a good potential strategy.

Aside from minor quibbles like ALit vs Mute (I think Mute's more useful but it makes no difference as Lamp is indeed worthless), other issues with this list:

Level 4: AICE, PURE, FEAR, AMUT

AMut would be useful in a romhack where Mute effects actually get used by anything noteworthy and if you have more than one spellcaster on the team, but otherwise it and Pure are basically worthless. Nothing noteworthy in FF1 uses Mute on you, and buying the Pure spell is equivalent to buying 53 potions. You might not even be poisoned that many times in the game, and you can certainly carry more of those at once than you can charges of the Pure spell.

Fear at least does something, even if it's not terribly effective or practical, rather than being outright worthless.

Level 5: LIFE, CUR3, HRM3, HEL2

There's not necessarily a right or wrong here. Life is unique and thus top priority, but Hel2 is helpful even in non bugged versions. In the original NES version, I'd skip Cur3 and go right to Hel2 unless you plan on not getting Cur4 (no class change run, etc). Cur3 helps for no-class change runs as it's the best source of healing. Hrm3 can be skipped as Hrm2 is still quite strong against all but the strongest undead. If your White Mage is your only spellcaster then I'd consider going Hrm3, but with black magic support on the team, you can probably safely skip it and focus on more healing options at this level if you prefer.

Level 7: CUR4, HRM4, ARUB, HEL3

ARub is largely worthless, as you'll have ProRings on everyone at this point to grant Death resistance, and Ribbons soon after to stop most of the effects that ARub stops. Saving your precious Cur4/Hel3 spells and using Wall is probably preferable when buffing the 4th party member without a Ribbon in situations where you need it (namely to block Chaos's Crack ability), as the only other useful level 8 spell is Fade.

Hel3 is your best multitarget heal spell. ARub may be helpful in a no class change run where Wall is not up for grabs, though.

Hrm4 is very strong and shouldn't be discarded in favour of ARub, either. It's effective for Zombie Dragons, ZomBulls, Ghosts, Vampires, WzVampires, Phantom, Lich2, etc.

Level 1: FIRE, LIT, SLEP, LOCK

As with most RPGs such as Wizardry where a basic Sleep spell shows up at level 1, Slep is actually the best L1 spell late game, where it's a multi-target delay spell that can potentially cause multiple enemies to lose a turn. Fire and Lit are obsoleted late game when the Black Mage/Wizard gets high enough physical attack to beat out these spells, so Slep/Lock/Lit would actually be ideal in an unbugged game (few enemies resist Lit compared to Fire). Of course, none of this matters in the NES version, as there's effectively only three level 1 spells and thus you will have Slep unless you're not aware Lock does literally nothing.

Level 5: WARP, FIR3, QAKE, SLO2 (QAKE isn't important, but isn't the worst spell either)

You have Qake mixed up with Bane; Bane, the all enemy Poison spell, is level 5. It's actually pretty decent, better than Qake is I think (a LOT of enemies have Earth resistance). Slo2 is also good enough as a non-elemental spell that inflicts Slow that you may want it as an option for some bosses where hitting with it instantly wins the fight (Kraken for instance).

Fir3 is more useful than Warp is so I'd argue it should be first on the list. Warp is helpful if your White Wizard drops in an emergency, but Exit is always better if you have both. Fir3 and Warp are definitely super helpful, but I'm not sure there's a clear-cut consensus on Bane vs Slo2. One advantage Slo2 has is that nothing else replicates it, whereas you have the late game Bane Sword and the Brak spell for Poison element insta kills if you like. Early access to the Bane spell is pretty handy though... If you have two Black Mages, maybe give one Bane and one Slo2.

STUN isn't necessary

You rate the two best 300 HP spells, Stun and XXXX, very low. They're actually quite useful if you know how they work and are familiar with enemy HP values as they're guaranteed to hit so long as you fulfill the right conditions. There's several enemies in the game you can get a hit on at the start of the fight, or by dropping their current HP below the threshold, including every single Kary, Kraken, and Tiamat fight. Kary only needs to be dealt 400 HP damage to be a guaranteed hit with the Stun spell for the remainder of the fight. Lit3 and Nuke are of course generally better for their respective levels because they're multitarget, but don't underestimate the usefulness of being able to get a guaranteed kill the moment a vulnerable target drops to 300 HP or less.

Zap! and Stop are both Time element, the main difference being Zap! is an instant kill, and Stop is a paralysis effect with a higher hit rate. I'd generally suggest Nuke, Zap!, and XXXX for level 8 spells as taking both Zap! and Stop is unnecessary.

User Info: mitsguy2001

mitsguy2001
6 months ago#4
BareknuckleRoo posted...
You've put the most useful level 1 spell and one of the most useful buff spells in the entire game as the 3rd most useful. It's also the spell the Red Mage generally saves a spell slot for to get after class change because it's just that useful. Fog is also arguably more useful than Harm is late game when multiple Light Axes and a Mage Staff are available. A spell's usefulness can change depending on whether it's early to late game, and depending on the rest of the team composition. Harm for instance is extremely useful early on, but largely irrelevant late game, whereas Cure is both useful early and late game, but can be substituted with Heal Potions if you want Harm for undead killing early on, which is a good potential strategy.

I was thinking of the usefulness at the time that you can learn each spell. And I had said that I was referring to a party with 1 Fighter, 1 Black Belt, 1 White Mage, and 1 Black Mage.


Aside from minor quibbles like ALit vs Mute (I think Mute's more useful but it makes no difference as Lamp is indeed worthless), other issues with this list:

AMut would be useful in a romhack where Mute effects actually get used by anything noteworthy and if you have more than one spellcaster on the team, but otherwise it and Pure are basically worthless. Nothing noteworthy in FF1 uses Mute on you, and buying the Pure spell is equivalent to buying 53 potions. You might not even be poisoned that many times in the game, and you can certainly carry more of those at once than you can charges of the Pure spell.

Fear at least does something, even if it's not terribly effective or practical, rather than being outright worthless.

Ok, fair enough. Not that it matters, since we agreed to put AMUT on the bottom, and I suggested only learning AICE.


There's not necessarily a right or wrong here. Life is unique and thus top priority, but Hel2 is helpful even in non bugged versions. In the original NES version, I'd skip Cur3 and go right to Hel2 unless you plan on not getting Cur4 (no class change run, etc). Cur3 helps for no-class change runs as it's the best source of healing. Hrm3 can be skipped as Hrm2 is still quite strong against all but the strongest undead. If your White Mage is your only spellcaster then I'd consider going Hrm3, but with black magic support on the team, you can probably safely skip it and focus on more healing options at this level if you prefer.

ARub is largely worthless, as you'll have ProRings on everyone at this point to grant Death resistance, and Ribbons soon after to stop most of the effects that ARub stops. Saving your precious Cur4/Hel3 spells and using Wall is probably preferable when buffing the 4th party member without a Ribbon in situations where you need it (namely to block Chaos's Crack ability), as the only other useful level 8 spell is Fade. Hel3 is your best multitarget heal spell. ARub may be helpful in a no class change run where Wall is not up for grabs, though. Hrm4 is very strong and shouldn't be discarded in favour of ARub, either. It's effective for Zombie Dragons, ZomBulls, Ghosts, Vampires, WzVampires, Phantom, Lich2, etc.

That all makes sense, but at HEL3 is effectively the same as HEL2, so no reason to get HEL3.

Since HEL2 is the same as HEL3, there is no real reason to get HEL3. Not that I suggested ARUB either, for the reasons you said.

I did not suggest discarding HRM4 in favor of ARUB. I listed HRM4 second.



As with most RPGs such as Wizardry where a basic Sleep spell shows up at level 1, Slep is actually the best L1 spell late game, where it's a multi-target delay spell that can potentially cause multiple enemies to lose a turn. Fire and Lit are obsoleted late game when the Black Mage/Wizard gets high enough physical attack to beat out these spells, so Slep/Lock/Lit would actually be ideal in an unbugged game (few enemies resist Lit compared to Fire). Of course, none of this matters in the NES version, as there's effectively only three level 1 spells and thus you will have Slep unless you're not aware Lock does literally nothing.
Or you can save your money and skip SLEP.



You have Qake mixed up with Bane; Bane, the all enemy Poison spell, is level 5. It's actually pretty decent, better than Qake is I think (a LOT of enemies have Earth resistance). Slo2 is also good enough as a non-elemental spell that inflicts Slow that you may want it as an option for some bosses where hitting with it instantly wins the fight (Kraken for instance).
You are right that I confused to levels of QAKE and BANE. I would consider the order for Level 5 to be WARP, FIR3, BANE, SLO2, where WARP and FIRE3 are important, and BANE is optional.



Fir3 is more useful than Warp is so I'd argue it should be first on the list. Warp is helpful if your White Wizard drops in an emergency, but Exit is always better if you have both. Fir3 and Warp are definitely super helpful,

You may be right, but it doesn't really matter.

I suggested Warp in case your White Mage dies and you need to get out.

but I'm not sure there's a clear-cut consensus on Bane vs Slo2. One advantage Slo2 has is that nothing else replicates it, whereas you have the late game Bane Sword and the Brak spell for Poison element insta kills if you like. Early access to the Bane spell is pretty handy though... If you have two Black Mages, maybe give one Bane and one Slo2.

SLO2 would only be useful against a boss who uses multiple physical attacks and who resists Status. Kary uses multiple physical attacks, but she's weak to Status, so SLOW is a better choice against her.

User Info: beege_man

beege_man
6 months ago#5
mitsguy2001 posted...
That all makes sense, but at HEL3 is effectively the same as HEL2, so no reason to get HEL3.
HEL3 is at a different level so it's additional charges of a good spell. HEL2 additionally competes with LIFE charges, so you often have fewer of them or don't want to use them.
L43 474/474 9/9/9/8/8/8/7/7 Int/MDef: 57/104
HDCEA: 114-109-104/51-53-46/3-4-6.5/83/43(37) Resist: Ice/(Fire)/(Lit)/Death AtkElem: Ice-Fire-Coral
(edited 6 months ago)

User Info: KamikazeJohnson

KamikazeJohnson
6 months ago#6
I've always put too priority on Damage/Healing spells, second priority on direct Buff spells. Always hated Status spells...feels like chucking the dice on the first round of the battle...if this spell hits, easy win; if not, I'm in trouble. As you can see, I've never had much luck with that type of spell lol.
"My NES stopped working;" Tom said inconsolably.

User Info: BareknuckleRoo

BareknuckleRoo
6 months ago#7
mitsguy2001 posted...
I was thinking of the usefulness at the time that you can learn each spell. And I had said that I was referring to a party with 1 Fighter, 1 Black Belt, 1 White Mage, and 1 Black Mage.

Ruse is the most useful level 1 spell in general, regardless of party composition. It's that good. It can be eventually learned by the Knight in this case, allowing the Black Belt to use the Defense sword for Ruse.

That all makes sense, but at HEL3 is effectively the same as HEL2, so no reason to get HEL3.

Since HEL2 is the same as HEL3, there is no real reason to get HEL3.

Doubling up on them allows you to have charges of both. See beege_man's response. Hel2 restores more health in total than Cur3 does if all members are injured from what I recall. Cur4 is generally more useful than Hel3 but that's not to say Hel3 is bad.

I did not suggest discarding HRM4 in favor of ARUB. I listed HRM4 second.

I was only talking in general terms if you were in a challenge run situation where you really wanted ARub for some reason.

Or you can save your money and skip SLEP.

It's only 100 gold. It gives a Black Mage something useful to do early on when trying to run from large enemy groups that aren't quite scary enough to merit a Fir2/Lit2 charge. Since the back slot has very low run success rates, it can be more helpful against a large group to try and delay enemies with a Slep spell while the rest of the team runs, rather than trying to run with a very low success rate.

Kary uses multiple physical attacks, but she's weak to Status, so SLOW is a better choice against her.

I couldn't actually find any enemies that resist Status that merit the use of Slo2, now that I look at the list. With Slow having the same base accuracy and multitargetting compared to Slo2, Bane seems the better L5 spell. None of the 8 fiend fights have status resist except for Lich / Lich 2 (who only hits once anyways and is a spellcaster primarily), so Slow works just as well as Slo2 on Kraken.

The only real application Slo2 has that Slow does not is trying for the 13/201 chance of hitting Warmech or Chaos with it for fun, both of whom also have incredibly powerful multitarget attacks. There's tons of enemies with large numbers of hits that have no Status resistance (both types of Chimera, both types of Hydra, both types of Ocho) that also come in groups where Slow is potentially useful (if you're saving your damage spells for something else). However, status resistant enemies with multiple hits tend to be dangerous spellcasters (Mancat), or come in groups too large to merit Slo2 (Sentry, weak to Lit). The only enemy in the game I could find that is resistant to Status, has multiple hits, and has enough HP to merit Slo2 is the Nitemare enemy, but even then, they're weak to Ice, often waste turns with Snorting, and Fir3 is more useful to hang onto than a Slo2 spell.

I never actually analyzed Slo2 before but it's pretty bad. It's more of a threat in the hands of an enemy since you can't protect against it with resistance, your MDef will never be high enough to reliably stop it (unless you hit level 50 with a Black Belt prior to class change) and it requires curing with Fast if it lands, making it a particular nuisance in solo runs vs Chaos. Bane is definitely the best option over Slo2.

User Info: FreshFeeling

FreshFeeling
6 months ago#8
mitsguy2001 posted...
I did not suggest discarding HRM4 in favor of ARUB. I listed HRM4 second.

What are you casting HRM4 against? The only real HRM4 use-cases I can think of are Lich 2 or big vampire groups and I see other options being either much more economical (mage staff, HRM3, just attacking) or better.
ARUB isn't always a top pick for me but I don't think HRM4 is super great. There aren't a lot of strong undead in the late game. I'd simply never cast HRM4 over saving a CUR4 charge.
The feral chocobo calls with a boisterous "wark," not the domestic breed's mild "kweh."
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(edited 6 months ago)

User Info: beege_man

beege_man
6 months ago#9
Yep, I did the same analysis on SLO2 a few years ago. It was pretty surprising that it doesn't actually have a use other than in being used against you.
L43 474/474 9/9/9/8/8/8/7/7 Int/MDef: 57/104
HDCEA: 114-109-104/51-53-46/3-4-6.5/83/43(37) Resist: Ice/(Fire)/(Lit)/Death AtkElem: Ice-Fire-Coral

User Info: Binta

Binta
6 months ago#10
How would a Red Mage / Red Wizard spell priority compare? Level 7 spells are a no-brainer since he only has ICE3 and ARUB to choose from. But with only 3 slots to fill, there's so many choices for spell levels 1-6.
"If drumsticks are for playing drums, you'd think breadsticks would be for playing bread, wouldn't you?" ~George Carlin
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