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User Info: flamefox777

flamefox777
3 months ago#1
Thanks for making Final Fantasy Restored, Alex Jackson, anomie, AstralEsper, DaddyNick17, Disch, Grond, Lenophis, LeviathanMist, MightyCollector, Paulygon, Vcimdarf, x_loto, and Zzonkmiles!

After being unable to find it here on the forums, I found it at https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1631/

I used Lunar IPS to patch the ROM (which I own and received as a Christmas present that I later learned my parents got for renewing my subscription to Nintendo Power). It was the first time I'd ever patched a ROM or done anything like that.

When I last visited here, this was still under construction! All these years later, I get to see the project's completion.

I'm disappointed that the peninsula of power was taken out as I never considered that a bug at all, and I wouldn't have had the graphics and music added *by default*, but I like both a lot! Really cool to play this game as it was intended with a few tiny "quality of life" improvements that are hardly noticeable, but very much appreciated (no more buying healing potions one at a time!).

Is there a guide anywhere to things like spells, weapons and armor? I know old guides give facts, but I'm talking about pros and cons of the changes, opinions that a strategy guide would discuss. I really have no idea if any of the formerly bugged spells are any good as one example.

Again, thanks a lot for making this patch!

User Info: SchlossRitter

SchlossRitter
3 months ago#2
I take some blame for the removal of PNEoP as a heavy advocate that it was an map design oversight. I personally rarely have ever used it in any version of the game. Remember too that Nasir didn't have a neat on-screen domain grid to go by when coding the tiles, as we do now in FF Hackster. It was all likely done by manually inputting values into the raw data.
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Nothing to see here. Move along.
(edited 3 months ago)

User Info: Anonymus96

Anonymus96
3 months ago#3
SchlossRitter posted...
I take some blame for the removal of PNEoP as a heavy advocate that it was an map design oversight. I personally rarely have ever used it in any version of the game. Remember too that Nasir didn't have a neat on-screen domain grid to go by when coding the tiles, as we do now in FF Hackster. It was all likely done by manually inputting values into the raw data.

Well, I always put back the peninsula each time I have to patch Restored.

User Info: MysticGreever

MysticGreever
3 months ago#4
It was in the PS1 version.

Not saying it was intended that way but I've used it occasionally.
PSN: MystykkGreever / Currently Playing: My NES and SNES backlog. FF3 then DW2.

User Info: flamefox777

flamefox777
3 months ago#5
SchlossRitter posted...
I take some blame for the removal of PNEoP as a heavy advocate that it was an map design oversight.


No big deal! It's just one small part of such a momentous project. We disagree, but that's just my opinion and yours is just as valid.I didn't do any of the work, so I don't get a vote, but if I did, I would have said leave all the aspects that were "probably a glitch" alone by default (that would even include the silver sword in Elfland). But, that's why there's options! Which is the best of both worlds!

Thanks again!

User Info: AstralEsper

AstralEsper
3 months ago#6
It's funny; over the course of time I feel more conflicted about the Peninsula. I'm still convinced it was almost surely a bug/oversight, but in retrospect, given the nature of it and how out-of-the-way it was, I'm no longer convinced that it truly "needed" fixing.

Glad you've enjoyed it all the same!

User Info: FreshFeeling

FreshFeeling
3 months ago#7
Silver sword in Elfland is a funny one, though. It feels wrong and fixing it makes the game better but there’s little evidence that it’s actually wrong... which puts it in the same camp as the intelligence oversight and BB/Ma magic defence.
The feral chocobo calls with a boisterous "wark," not the domestic breed's mild "kweh."
https://twitter.com/RetroFreshTV

User Info: Shadow_FF6

Shadow_FF6
3 months ago#8
I kinda got the idea that FFRestored was designed with the intent of being 'FF as intended' which meant that the bugs were fixed while touching the functional game as little as possible. And I can totally understand wanting to release a 'pure' bugfix version of the game. FF Rebalanced would be where all the real changes went, but from what I understand, it was never truly finished, and never publicly released. So that's why the Peninsula of Power had to go, because it was most likely a bug (though it also could have been noticed, and decided to be left in as a happy accident).

That being said, I'm generally a fan of leaving in things like that, partly because it is out of the way and 'unnatural' in many ways, and can even be seen as an intentional easter egg (despite being probably unintentional). The Silver Sword, by contrast, is right in your face. The fact that it makes the two best classes even better does not help things.

As far as whether the Silver Sword is in the wrong place... well, silver in the NES version is Mythril in later version, and Mithril in Tolkienesk fantasy is tied to Elves. So it does make some sense to be there... however the absence of other Silver gear makes it more likely to be an accident, or perhaps it was left-over from an earlier version where all Silver gear could be found in Elfland.

I'd disagree, however, that there's little evidence that Intelligence and Master MDef is wrong. A case could be made that Intelligence was intentionally dummied out in favor of simply letting spell slots suffice as a measure of magical power. However not only does that not work when compared to D&D (Where magic power AND spell slots come with levels), it also doesn't make sense that the Intelligence stat would be left in as visible to the player. Why dummy out just the effect without dummying out the stat in level ups and the character view? We know the engine already has room for a stat to be functional AND invisible thanks to MDef. Though a case can be made that Intelligence was left in as a way to say that the characters magic power was going up with every level, even though Intelligence had nothing to do with spell slots, it would feel a bit better to players than if there were no message for that.

And with the Black Belt Master thing... I think it's hard to figure out exactly what was intended (the implemented solution is the best guess, but D&D Monks tend to be remarkably resilient against spells, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was meant to be high for both classes), but I cannot believe the intention was for Master to be a strict downgrade to the Black Belt. If the MDef growth decrease was intended, it must have been intended for the Master to get something else in return, which was then left out. But even that seems weird, as it would still be the only class to have any downside to being upgraded.

Of course, perhaps there's some more stuff lingering in the messy bits of the code that would provide good evidence to the contrary. But I'm a lot more willing to believe that the Silver Sword, and even the Peninsula of Power were intended (or unintended but noticed and left in), than I am that Intelligence and Master MDef were intentional. The fact that Intelligence and MDef actual effects on the game are much harder to notice (since they simply tweak percentages) than the PoP or Silver Sword helps add to the idea that they were simply bugs that escaped attention.
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User Info: flamefox777

flamefox777
3 months ago#9
FreshFeeling posted...
Silver sword in Elfland is a funny one, though. It feels wrong and fixing it makes the game better but there’s little evidence that it’s actually wrong... which puts it in the same camp as the intelligence oversight and BB/Ma magic defence.

The silver sword "feeling wrong" and not having it in Elfland "makes the game better" are, by definition, entirely subjective opinions (with which I completely disagree).

I don't know enough about those other bugs to comment on them, but from my limited understanding, I doubt they are anywhere near the same camp.

I mean no disrespect to you, though! Every opinion about the game is valid so long as it can be supported with evidence (even if based on play styles and personal preference), and both sides of this debate can certainly be supported with plenty of evidence.

Just think, 30 years later, we're still debating the silver sword and PNEoP! Wow! =D

Shadow_FF6 posted...
I'd disagree, however, that there's little evidence that Intelligence and Master MDef is wrong.

And with the Black Belt Master thing... I think it's hard to figure out exactly what was intended . . . but I cannot believe the intention was for Master to be a strict downgrade to the Black Belt. If the MDef growth decrease was intended, it must have been intended for the Master to get something else in return, which was then left out. But even that seems weird, as it would still be the only class to have any downside to being upgraded.


Totally agreed. I've read the thread and the stickies and lurked here for many years, so I do have a basic understanding of these issues, but I didn't mean to drag up decades-old controversies here! =)

Just wanted to say thanks for a great hack! =)

User Info: AstralEsper

AstralEsper
3 months ago#10
And I can totally understand wanting to release a 'pure' bugfix version of the game. FF Rebalanced would be where all the real changes went, but from what I understand, it was never truly finished, and never publicly released.

Sadly, yes. Although, about that.... I've learned not to make any promises, but let's just say that a few weeks ago, I was talking with a friend about it, and then started going through some of my old files....

As far as whether the Silver Sword is in the wrong place... well, silver in the NES version is Mythril in later version, and Mithril in Tolkienesk fantasy is tied to Elves. So it does make some sense to be there... however the absence of other Silver gear makes it more likely to be an accident, or perhaps it was left-over from an earlier version where all Silver gear could be found in Elfland.

My theory is that it is indeed from an earlier version of the game, and there's some support for this. Most particularly is the fact that the Crown is needed to enter the Castle of Ordeals. But this doesn't make much sense, since there's no possible way to get to the Castle of Ordeals until well after the Crown. Throw in the Mystic Key angle coming so early in game, and that further suggests it would make more sense for Elfland to come later, since that IS kind of early to get an item that incentivizes revisiting dungeons. Plus, as you note, Mythril is associated with elves. It's not hard to imagine that an earlier draft of the game had Elfland coming later, and stocked with Mythril gear - and then they changed it up and maybe inadvertently left the Mythril Sword in the shop (it IS in the last slot).

Another interesting thought is taking into account the fact that, unlike any other town, it has two magic shops per school there. It's been suggested that this is because you spend more time around Elfland than elsewhere, but I'm not convinced that's actually true. Crescent Lake and Melmond, for example, involve two dungeon trips before the next town - whereas you only need to go to the Marsh Cave once. Maybe it was intended to be bigger than it wound up being. Or... what if Elfland was a place you went to, but couldn't resolve immediately? What if the magic shops had, say, L3 and L6 Magic? Imagine you're there to find a way out of the Aldi Sea, and come across the sleeping prince and the man in the Northwest Castle, but can't find this crown he keeps on prattling about. Then you find it later, and come back, and surprise! But then you resolve that whole plot arc, get the Mystic Key, and have an excuse to revisit half the dungeons in the game.

There's no way of telling for sure, and the Ultimania for FF1 is sadly pretty spartan in terms of design documents. But it's interesting to think about.

And with the Black Belt Master thing... I think it's hard to figure out exactly what was intended (the implemented solution is the best guess, but D&D Monks tend to be remarkably resilient against spells, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was meant to be high for both classes)

That's a genuinely interesting point I hadn't considered (largely due to my lack of familiarity with D&D). But as a whole, I'm just beside myself trying to figure out what they were thinking with magic defense values, and frankly, I'm not sure there's any entirely satisfactory solution. (I actually dislike the differential class change stats, because it incentivizes rushing. It would have been nice if there were an easy way to just give a lump-sum boost at class change).
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