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User Info: AngelsNAirwav3s

6 months ago#11
Leffen is super pissed on Twitter for being portrayed as a villain lol

Overall I think 4 through 6 were a bit worse than the first 3, I think he could have easily combined these into 2 episodes, it does drag a bit. Definitely needs more M2K, he has hardly been in the doc at all lol. Also there isn't much Hbox, and no Leffen interviews. Pretty much the Mango/PPMD/Armada show, which isn't too bad. It is a little bit repetitive though, just a lot of arcs that seem to happen over and over: PPMD doing good, then getting depressed; Mango winning then not trying for a while. Just needed a bit of a quicker pace I think.
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User Info: TheNextLink

6 months ago#12
Leffen was considered the villain in 2014. Not sure why he's mad about it.

Just own it, bro.
2020 - Sony withdraws from the video game industry

User Info: AngelsNAirwav3s

6 months ago#13
Lol seriously, Leffen was a dick back then. I do agree with the complaint though that Leffen beating each of the gods for the first time was treated like some super sad moment and the villain was winning in the doc, when it was actually one of the most exciting times in Melee w/ new blood winning finally.

Sounds like Mango is not happy either, looks like he is getting “cancelled” for Samox not adequately censoring his tweets saying f** and other not good words 10 years ago
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User Info: -ZIO-

6 months ago#14
Seems like a cool documentary. People seem upset that Saxon or whatever his name is is putting his narrative into it.

History is viewed differently by all people's and their perspectives. This is how he perceived events.

Anyone else is welcome to make their own documentary on Melee.

User Info: crs1989

6 months ago#15
Man I missed out on the premiere and don't want to pay $3/episode to watch right now. Choices choices...

User Info: profzX

6 months ago#16
Leffen complains a lot so I wouldnt worry about it. He was a tool back then and it would be dishonest to hide that.

I think the doc was cool but hard to follow compared to the older one. They kept jumping back and forward through time. They would be at one tournament and then in the middle of someone saying something be at a completely different tournament years apart. If someone who never followed the smash scene watched metagame, I could see them getting lost. The original doc was pretty clear whether you followed smash or not.
I wish to be Kalista's soulbound, I'd be her supp and I'd KS, so she would shove her dirty, sweaty feet on my face, forcing me to inhale, lick and worship her

User Info: AngelsNAirwav3s

6 months ago#17
Overall I thought the doc was a 7.5 or 8/10:
Episodes 1 through 3: 10/10
Episodes 4 and 5: 9/10
Episodes 6 through 9: 6.5/10

I think the biggest sources for disappointment were expectations were sky high with all this build up, and the first 3 episodes were sooooo good. Also the marketing, this was built up as a 5 Gods documentary, but it is basically an Armada/PPMD documentary with a lot of Mango in the beginning. Some HBox stuff, but 0 M2K. Armada's story was great, but PP's dragged in my opinion, it just seemed very repetitive w/ "I suffered w/ depression, but then I just said screw it and I won the tournament! and then I was depressed again, had to center myself, then I won the tournament! Then I got depressed again..." I wish we had a little less PP, and maybe more time covering Mango's repeat Evo wins.

The way Leffen was handled though, is the reason why episodes 6 through 8 were so bad. I see what Samox was going for, showing how it was the end of an era w/ Leffen coming in and beating all the gods, but it came off as Leffen was a total a****** who hates disabled people, and was single handedly killing the entire melee scene and no one wanted to play the game anymore lol. It was a pretty big tonal shift from the first 5 episodes, and especially the first Documentary, which was very much a celebration of the game, while the finale of this doc was like a sad farewell to the game.

I think all these problems were just the result of Samox doing the entire thing by himself (he should have done some more pre-screenings for feedback), and also the changing ideas for what the narrative should be as he went along. It was originally going to be just an Armada doc, and then an Armada/PP doc, and then a 5 gods doc. Also all of this footage and most interviews were done by Apex 2015, when Leffen was still unsponsored and not a huge name yet. I think that is the reason why Leffen got the shaft so much, Samox didn't plan on Leff being a big part when collecting footage, and then he had to deal with that whole VISA issue, and Samox didn't want to spend more budget flying out to Sweden again.

This could have been a 10/10 doc if we had more interviews w/ the Gods talking about their relationships w/ each other I think, some of the best moments were random Hbox stuff talking about how he went up to PP after he lost, or talked about how much he respected Armada, etc. And if we just had episode 6 be similar to how it was, Leffen destroying each of the gods 1 by 1 as the villain, but then have a 15 or 20 minute segment on Leffen only to humanize him, like I never realized how Leffen was broke as a joke working at a grocery store until APEX 2015, and he just bet it all on that tournament to get his dream. It was actually the Mango $1k money match at that tournament that had TSM calling him up offering a contract. It would have added a lot of hype to APEX, and also added depth to the Leffen character.

Overall, I think the community is waaaay overreacting like usual, the doc is by no means bad, most of it is absolutely fantastic. The original doc was a 10/10 when I saw it because I had no expectations, but it has aged pretty poorly and is a 3 or 4/10 imo now. Metagame absolutely blows it out of the water, it is an 8/10 for me, but I don't see it aging nearly as bad. It is so much more professionally done, every interview this time is fantastic. Sadly Samox seemed soooo beat down in the final interview after the premiere, I felt really bad for him. I wonder how much he is going to re-edit and reshoot...
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User Info: johneaston

6 months ago#18
Yeah, the original doc has aged a bit (I watched all of it leading up to Metagame's release), though it is most definitely not as bad as a 3 or 4/10; I'd give it an 8 now, probably. The only things that have aged really badly are the language used and some of the production (more of a budget issue than an age issue anyways). I think a lot of the interviews fit the documentary very well though; it was a grassroots documentary about a grassroots scene with grassroots interviews (Wife and Prog definitely were needed for a little bit of professionalism though). I will say that Mango's episode in TSB was always pretty subpar (5-6/10), even when I first watched it; very little hype and that's not even going into how it portrayed Mango. However, episodes 4-7 are all still really good imo (9 or 10/10), and 1-3 and 9 are all still pretty solid as well (8/10).

Metagame's first three episodes were absolutely amazing, easy 10/10, and even 4 and 5 were still really good, as you said. 6, 7, and 8 were ok, but there was so little excitement during those episodes that I found myself getting bored, which never happened during TSB (except ep. 8). I pretty much agree with all your criticisms of those episodes. Personally, I think Justice 4 could have been cut completely and replaced with some M2K stuff. Would have cleanly eliminated DJ and La Luna with that too. Even though M2K wasn't vying for #1 during that time as much, cutting out his very impressive 2013-2014 stretch seems wrong. I would have said the same thing about Hbox, but he had plenty of screen time comparatively, and had actual interview footage.

For the summer of smash in 2014, I feel like an entire episode could have been about that stuff. KoC 4 was the first tournament I remember watching the vods from, and I remember that time being so hype. I'm glad BH4 got a lot of time, that is my favorite tournament ever, and the very first I ever watched live on Twitch, before I even watched the original doc.
Such is the community that raised itself from the ashes. Melee the Phoenix.
(edited 6 months ago)

User Info: AngelsNAirwav3s

6 months ago#19
You are probably right, the original is better than a 4/10, I still really like it and it holds a special place in my heart. I just meant from a pure objective point of view, it is an amateur production w/ not the best footage. It was a cheap grass roots YouTube doc about a grassroots community like you said, it was perfect for the era. Not professional level though. The new doc you can tell Samox had more budget and learned a lot more about filmmaking, even with the flaws in the last few episodes I think Metagame is Netflix level quality.
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User Info: -ZIO-

6 months ago#20
I kind of ignored the original doc.

Still haven't seen it.

Because for whatever reason I was mad I wasn't part of it because despite being in competitive smash I was just a lame scrub no one knew and that made me mad, lol.
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