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User Info: LieutenantSykes

LieutenantSykes
3 years ago#1
So, the game displays HP as whole numbers 0-10, with a unit displayed as 0 HP counting as destroyed. However, the damage is displayed as a percentage, a decimal with two significant figures. Does anyone know how the game reconciles the two?

For example, if a 10 HP unit takes damage shown as 75%, how does it choose to display the remaining HP? If the unit has 25% health remaining, does it round up and display 3 HP, or round down to 2 HP? (Experience says it will usually display 2 HP, but I understand there is some randomness in the actual damage done- more on that later).

Most importantly though, does the game still track the actual percentage behind the scenes? When the unit is displayed as 2 or 3 HP, is it set to exactly that (i.e. 2.0 and/or 3.0) or is it still tracked internally as 2.5 HP?

As for rounding, I think it would make more sense to always round up, otherwise a unit only effectively has 9.5 HP (anything below 0.5 would get rounded down to 0) but personal experience seems to show more rounding down than anything (the 75% attack dealing 8 HP of damage). I understand there's a random damage factor that could do more damage depending on the RNG, different sources place that either during the calculation or adding straight to the final damage. So, the random chance of doing more damage increases the chances of pushing the 75% attack over the actual 80% mark and reducing the defender to 2 HP, while still allowing for 75-79- is this what happens when it displays 3 HP? Would it have to hit 75% exactly (2.5 HP remaining) to display 3?

Assuming the damage formula in the wiki is correct (http://awbw.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Formula) the the HP of the attacker and defender are figured into the equation. Does that formula use the displayed HP or the actual HP (assuming the game actually does track it by at least one decimal point).

All of this is a roundabout way of asking: all that stands between me and an S Rank of AC Final Battle is a 13% attack on a 2 HP APC. I've been resetting for a while and the attack never destroys the APC- and I've definitely seen 13% deal 2 HP of damage before, which makes sense with the random additions. If the APC is a "high" 2, though, like 2.4, maybe that changes the calcs enough so it never will destroy it? Does anyone know if this is the way HP is actually tracked though?

TL;DR: someone hack the game for me please.

User Info: Xenesis Xenon

Xenesis Xenon
3 years ago#2
LieutenantSykes posted...
TL;DR: someone hack the game for me please.


Already done hahahah.

LieutenantSykes posted...
For example, if a 10 HP unit takes damage shown as 75%, how does it choose to display the remaining HP? If the unit has 25% health remaining, does it round up and display 3 HP, or round down to 2 HP? (Experience says it will usually display 2 HP, but I understand there is some randomness in the actual damage done- more on that later).


HP values are rounded up. So the game counts 10HP as 100 to 91 in value.

LieutenantSykes posted...
Most importantly though, does the game still track the actual percentage behind the scenes? When the unit is displayed as 2 or 3 HP, is it set to exactly that (i.e. 2.0 and/or 3.0) or is it still tracked internally as 2.5 HP?


Yeah, the game uses a full 100HP system behind the scenes and it's breakpointed into the 1-10HP values for display purposes.

LieutenantSykes posted...
Assuming the damage formula in the wiki is correct (http://awbw.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Formula) the the HP of the attacker and defender are figured into the equation. Does that formula use the displayed HP or the actual HP (assuming the game actually does track it by at least one decimal point).

This is the AW2 formula, so it doesn't apply to AW1 (see: https://www.warsworldnews.com/wp/aw/game-aw/battle-mechanics/ )

However, all the AW games use the displayed HP for scaling damage boosts and the like. So a unit at 91HP will do the same damage as at 100HP.

LieutenantSykes posted...
All of this is a roundabout way of asking: all that stands between me and an S Rank of AC Final Battle is a 13% attack on a 2 HP APC. I've been resetting for a while and the attack never destroys the APC- and I've definitely seen 13% deal 2 HP of damage before, which makes sense with the random additions. If the APC is a "high" 2, though, like 2.4, maybe that changes the calcs enough so it never will destroy it? Does anyone know if this is the way HP is actually tracked though?


It depends on what terrain the APC is on - the luck range is changed depending on how much defence the unit has. Also, just soft resetting won't change the outcome in the campaign, the RNG is sorta fixed and you'll need to have the ability to move units (the direction a diagonal path goes uses up a random number) to actually advance the RNG.
www.warsworldnews.com - Wars World News - The most chilled Advance Wars community on the web.

User Info: LieutenantSykes

LieutenantSykes
3 years ago#3
Wow, great info, thanks. Exactly what I was looking for.

Xenesis Xenon posted...
This is the AW2 formula, so it doesn't apply to AW1 (see: https://www.warsworldnews.com/wp/aw/game-aw/battle-mechanics/ )


I came across this one too but I wasn't sure what to make of it since I couldn't get close to what the game was telling me. For reference, it's a 9 HP Eagle infantry attacking a 2 HP Sturm APC on a base (3 defense stars). Neither Eagle's nor Sturm's CO powers have been used within the last turn.

Xenesis Xenon posted...
Also, just soft resetting won't change the outcome in the campaign, the RNG is sorta fixed and you'll need to have the ability to move units (the direction a diagonal path goes uses up a random number) to actually advance the RNG.


I was wondering about this too- it works pretty much like Fire Emblem, I take it? My save is at the beginning of Eagle's turn, with 3 other targets I need to move and destroy, so plenty of opportunity to burn RNs. I've tried a bunch of different combinations but nothing so far has worked. Thanks again for the info.

User Info: Dragon Fogel

Dragon Fogel
3 years ago#4
Basically, to calculate how much damage luck can add, you take the maximum possible luck (+9 if you're not Nell), calculate how defense (not attack modifiers!) applies just to that +9, and that gives you the maximum that can be added to the attack. I might be missing some of the details but it's close enough to make good estimates.

In the case of a 2 HP Campaign Sturm APC on a base, it has -20% inherent defense and 6% terrain defense (3% per HP). So, that +9 gets multiplied by 1.2, becoming 10.8, which rounds down to 10. Then it gets multiplied by 0.94, which makes it 9.4, rounded down to 9.

But, if the APC has more than 22 real health, you're just out of luck. If you turn on animations, you can see the full HP bar and get a better sense of how far into that 2 HP it is.

(Trivia: If this were AW2 or DS, the terrain and base defense modifiers would be combined and you'd multiply by 1.14. This would result in 10.26, rounding down to 10 and giving you an extra point of possible damage. However, luck is also limited by attacker's HP in that game, so your 9 HP infantry multiplies that 10 by .9 and brings the max back to 9.)

Also, the damage RNG isn't fixed, I loaded savestates for damage a lot back when I was first playing this on emulator. It seemed to be frame-based. I guess it could be cycling between a limited set of values for all I know, though.
Dragon Fogel, Marquis Elmdor's Arch-Nemesis.
Don't call me "Dragon".

User Info: LieutenantSykes

LieutenantSykes
3 years ago#5
Dragon Fogel posted...
But, if the APC has more than 22 real health, you're just out of luck.

This is why I wanted to know which way the game rounded. If the other poster is correct and it always rounds up, the APC should have at most 20. So in theory I should be able to destroy it if I roll high enough luck, I'm just not getting lucky enough. Would you happen to know if the luck distribution is uniform, or is it more of a normal distribution and you're more likely to get additions in the middle of the range?

This example is kind of moot now since I started the map over a few days ago but I'm always curious about this kind of stuff.

User Info: Dragon Fogel

Dragon Fogel
3 years ago#6
Oh right, it does always round up, it's been a while since I played these games so I wasn't thinking about it correctly.

No idea what the distribution is. When I needed a lucky blow, I just saved until it worked.

My general strategy for The Final Battle: use the left-side CO mainly to cluster up units to draw Meteor Strike away from the other two armies. Instead of taking the airport near Andy's starting point, allow Sturm to capture it. This causes him to spend a big chunk of funds building a bomber there, and if you just keep destroying it as soon as it's built, he gets nothing out of it.
Dragon Fogel, Marquis Elmdor's Arch-Nemesis.
Don't call me "Dragon".
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