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  3. Will Vit Up from Pachisi negatively affect my HP growth?

User Info: ThEBMaN

ThEBMaN
4 months ago#1
Topic. I'm of the impression that due to the way level ups work, raising your Vitality can actually negatively affect your future HP growths and such during the next level up. At least that's the impression I got from reading up on the mechanics, although admittedly they are a bit too complex for me to fully understand thus I am not sure if I am understanding it right.

So I'm helping someone can just tell me flat out, will gaining Vitality via the stat panels in the Pachisi boards negatively affect my HP growth on my next level up? Or will it actually give me more HP on my next level to account for that rise in Vitality? Am really not exactly sure how it works, hoping someone can tell enlighten me.

Am trying to get all the goodies on the Pachisi boards but it seems like EVERY SINGLE TIME I have a good session and pick up something good, I end up hitting one of those damned stat tiles on the very next turn, almost like the game is trying to screw me on purpose as payback for picking up a good item lol.
"HAVE YOU.... OR HAVE YOU NOT.... HEARD.... ABOUT.... THE BIRD?"
(edited 4 months ago)

User Info: Pre_PHD_Lee

Pre_PHD_Lee
4 months ago#2
My understanding is that vitality increases outside of level-ups only hurt you in the NES version. I believe in the remakes that any vitality increase is potentially beneficial, even if it's not at level-up.

I don't have a total understanding of how stat gains work, but I think the following is accurate.

Now, in the NES game, the game kind of averaged out your stats to keep them at some preprogrammed range for each class. So using seeds, in many cases, only provided a temporary benefit, and it would often result in lower gains for that stat on level up. This isn't actually harmful in most cases; it just limits the benefit of the seed.

But there was an oversight in designing HP and MP gains on the NES. It's tied to your vitality and intelligence, but not directly. It doesn't look at the actual stat; it only looks at the change in the stat, and only at the time you level up. Since the following level-ups may give you lower vitality/intelligence gains to readjust you to the preprogrammed baseline, you may lose out on any HP gains you should have gotten from the increase with the seed.

The problem was removed in the remakes by tying HP and MP growth to the actual value of vitality and intelligence, instead of the level-up increase. That ensures that at your next level-up you'll still get the HP gain associated with any seed/Pachisi increase.

Now, I think the remakes still have a stat correction system that will lower your gains if your stats are too high. I don't know if it's exactly the same as the NES version; it might be more forgiving to the player. But in the worst case, your stats will level out as you level up and the seeds/Pachisi will have a neutral effect. It won't ever actually be a harmful outcome.
May someday resume the quest for higher education, or else change my name here. Won't stop playing games either way.
(edited 4 months ago)

User Info: StyrixA

StyrixA
4 months ago#3
I've tried this an can confirm, VIT increases outside of level ups are _good_ for you. When you level up, the system will re-calculate what your HP _should_ be (about 2x Vit) and give you about that many HPs to get you there. And yes, that means that if you up your Vit a lot between levels, on your next level up you could get a LOT of HPs. Same is true with Int/MP.

User Info: ThEBMaN

ThEBMaN
4 months ago#4
VERY nice! Thank you guys for confirming that for me. That clears up questions I have had about stat gains in these games for a LONG time! I had no idea there were differences in the way the two versions handled it. Can't thank you guys enough,
"HAVE YOU.... OR HAVE YOU NOT.... HEARD.... ABOUT.... THE BIRD?"

User Info: Pre_PHD_Lee

Pre_PHD_Lee
4 months ago#5
As a side note, the difference in VIT seems to affects how Acorns of Life work. In the NES you can usually use them anytime for permanent benefit, but with the VIT change they no longer give you a permanent benefit unless you max out your VIT before using them.
May someday resume the quest for higher education, or else change my name here. Won't stop playing games either way.

User Info: ThEBMaN

ThEBMaN
4 months ago#6
Pre_PHD_Lee posted...
As a side note, the difference in VIT seems to affects how Acorns of Life work. In the NES you can usually use them anytime for permanent benefit, but with the VIT change they no longer give you a permanent benefit unless you max out your VIT before using them.

Really? I would have thought it'd be the opposite, that the old version would penalize you for using them early vs in the new version. Guess I'm still not 100% clear on how this thing works...
"HAVE YOU.... OR HAVE YOU NOT.... HEARD.... ABOUT.... THE BIRD?"

User Info: Pre_PHD_Lee

Pre_PHD_Lee
4 months ago#7
Again, it's just the way the mechanics work. In the new versions, your HP gains are tied to your total VIT. Specifically, your HP will level out around double your VIT score.

Using an Acorn of Life doesn't increase your VIT; just your HP. But the game regulates your HP to double your VIT score. The next time your VIT goes up, the game will see you're above where you need to be and adjust accordingly. So the acorn just gives a temporary benefit that's erased the next time your VIT goes up.

Unlike the VIT and INT seeds in the NES, this never gives a negative effect; just a neutral one. Basically the acorns' effect was naturally nerfed as a result of the way they fixed the VIT and INT seed issue; a fair tradeoff in my opinion. But if you save your acorns until your VIT is maxed, you'll still get a permanent benefit thereafter.

May someday resume the quest for higher education, or else change my name here. Won't stop playing games either way.

User Info: ThEBMaN

ThEBMaN
4 months ago#8
Pre_PHD_Lee posted...
Again, it's just the way the mechanics work. In the new versions, your HP gains are tied to your total VIT. Specifically, your HP will level out around double your VIT score.

Using an Acorn of Life doesn't increase your VIT; just your HP. But the game regulates your HP to double your VIT score. The next time your VIT goes up, the game will see you're above where you need to be and adjust accordingly. So the acorn just gives a temporary benefit that's erased the next time your VIT goes up.

Unlike the VIT and INT seeds in the NES, this never gives a negative effect; just a neutral one. Basically the acorns' effect was naturally nerfed as a result of the way they fixed the VIT and INT seed issue; a fair tradeoff in my opinion. But if you save your acorns until your VIT is maxed, you'll still get a permanent benefit thereafter.

Ah ok I think I understand. By the same logic though, having your Vitality or Intelligence decrease in Pachisi is most definitely a bad thing in the remakes correct? I just had my Intelligence go down 4 points & am weary about whether I should just reset, use some Int Seeds to bring it back up, or hope that my next level up gives me a higher Int gain to correct the loss. I am already at level 52 for my Hero tho if that matters.

And I also assume that like what you were saying about using the Acorns of Life, it's the same when using Mystic Acorns to raise MP, probably is a waste to do so before Int is maxed is that correct?
"HAVE YOU.... OR HAVE YOU NOT.... HEARD.... ABOUT.... THE BIRD?"
(edited 4 months ago)
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