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  3. ITT I try to convince Nade Duck (and anyone else) to play Final Fantasy XIV

User Info: papercup

papercup
1 month ago#41
agesboy posted...
https://i.gyazo.com/d1437cfc01118a7b33b78ce6403e38ef.jpg

hohohohohohohohoho got our 8 clears we're done till the 30th

what server were yall on btw

i'm on hyperion (primal)


Grats!

I'm on Gilgamesh(Aether)

So my raid group really only has 4 core people. We still haven't cleared Final because 1) Pugs are bad and 2) Pugs are BAD. Even when we pull people in who have clears, they have to learn the pug strats, and then we can't clear because "their way is better" or some bulls***. No. When you clicked "Join Party" and the PF says "Pug strats" you're telling us "I agree to do things your way".
Nintendo Network ID: papercups
3DS FC: 4124 5916 9925

User Info: agesboy

agesboy
1 month ago#42
miki_sauvester posted...
FFXIV is lame because every class is basically a cookie cutter skin of one of three real "classes", tank, healer, and dps. Basically any tank class is replaceable with any other tank class, any healer class can substitute for another healer class, etc. No true class variety. After discovering this, it kind of turned me off from the game.

this was less so before but absolutely so in shadowbringers with healers, it makes me really sad

scholars are losing like 80% of their damaging toolkit including their most used aetherflow ability energy drain...

papercup posted...
So my raid group really only has 4 core people. We still haven't cleared Final because 1) Pugs are bad and 2) Pugs are BAD. Even when we pull people in who have clears, they have to learn the pug strats, and then we can't clear because "their way is better" or some bulls***. No. When you clicked "Join Party" and the PF says "Pug strats" you're telling us "I agree to do things your way".

yeah, my raid group has tried messing with pugs in wow and we all agree thats trash and we'd rather just take the day off if someone's missing and we can't get a replacement we personally know

my group literally does things inverted from pug strats (in HW healers run left dps run right to drop defamations) but meh its still fundamentally the same thing and we run no pugs so we have no problems
http://i.imgur.com/LabbRyN.jpg
raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum.

User Info: Raganork

Raganork
1 month ago#43
miki_sauvester posted...
Also, to highlight the rigidity of the fact that any new job HAS to fit into one of the three archetypes, they made bards and dancers DPS in this game. Seems silly to completely kill the identity of a job just so you can force it into the "tank/healer/dps" triangle.

Great point. To add, all gear progression in this game is vertical in nature - that is, the only function of gear is to increase your various numbers, so as a consequence there will always be a “best in slot.” The game does not encourage build diversity; it stifles it. Every class will always have optimal gear and an optimal rotation. A black mage cannot specialize in either fire or ice spells; every single black mage will follow the same rotation. What, then, separates two players playing the same job?

Worse, what separates one melee dps from another when damage output takes precedence over utility? You run a parser, see which jobs have the greatest damage output, and create the exact same party compositions for raid progression as everyone else. Every raid group will look the same and act the same. Since that’s the case, why have jobs at all?

This new expansion is planning to homogenize jobs further - an attempt to lessen the community’s attachment to preferred jobs for raids. Due to the nature of skill properties and combos, this is a goal that is impossible to reach without distilling the game to exactly three jobs and eliminating the rest. Square Enix’s stubborn adherence to the formulaic 2 tanks/2 healers/4 dps party composition is stifling game design and creativity. And people have argued with me throughout the years that they don’t care - the game is fun, and they’re having fun playing dress up. It’s one thing to appreciate a game for its depth of cosmetic customization, but when I play a computer game, I’m looking for gameplay depth, which to say FFXIV lacks is an understatement.
(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: agesboy

agesboy
1 month ago#44
Raganork posted...
What, then, separates two players playing the same job?

skill and experience

Raganork posted...
Worse, what separates one melee dps from another when damage output takes precedence over utility? You run a parcer, see which jobs have the greatest damage output, and create the exact same party compositions for raid progression as everyone else. Every raid group will look the same and act the same. Since that’s the case, why have jobs at all?

this realistically only an issue for people trying to clear day 1 undergeared; no fights in xiv are actually overtuned to the point where composition actually matters all that much. fights are designed around handling mechanics correctly, mitigating at the right times, and healing at the right times efficiently. raw numbers will generally not be the reason for failure.

of course, some jobs just feel like absolute ass and nobody wants to play them sometimes. in no world should one button on a *tank* with a 30s recast eclipse the culmination of a machinist's entire burst phase that they revolve their entire rotation around. https://puu.sh/DDuXa.png
http://i.imgur.com/LabbRyN.jpg
raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum.

User Info: papercup

papercup
1 month ago#45
Oh here, I do have this guy.
https://imgur.com/a/xavTlCA

So I swear I can do Savage. lol I actually cleared a4s and a12s at the end of HW, and I did o4s when it was still current.
Nintendo Network ID: papercups
3DS FC: 4124 5916 9925
Does 14 not have support classes at all? Just asking from what the other guy said about there only being 3 roles for classes

User Info: agesboy

agesboy
1 month ago#47
There's no dedicated support/buffing/debuffing role, no. Most classes have varying levels of party support (samurai has no support but is pure damage; bard/machinist have lower dps but high mobility and more support), but at the end of the day you're either damaging, healing, or tanking.

If you want esoteric but vital support roles, FFXI is still kicking. Every party pretty much needs a corsair (role the dice for different magnitudes on buffs), bard (song buffs), and geomancer (buffs/debuffs specific stats by proximity) in the current meta. And while they might open skillchains, pull/debuff mobs, etc, their damage doesn't actually matter too much.

There's no pure support in XIV because everything is tightly designed. FFXI literally had unclearable fights that people spent days STRAIGHT fighting before people passed out from exhaustion. They weren't nearly as concerned with balance.
http://i.imgur.com/LabbRyN.jpg
raytan and Kana are on opposite ends of the Awesome Spectrum.

User Info: papercup

papercup
1 month ago#48
ReggieTheReckless posted...
Does 14 not have support classes at all? Just asking from what the other guy said about there only being 3 roles for classes


No there are support-like classes, they're just lumped into DPS. But there is no pure support role.
Dragoon
Bard
Ninja
Red Mage all have support utility.
and Summoner can heal and rez
Machinist can use some of the same support abilities Bard can

And of course healers can do things beyond heal. Like Astrologian has buff cards it can give people to attack faster or deal more damage or whatever. But sadly these are kinda getting nerfed in ShB. I wish they took it the other way and made the cards more interesting.

And in Shadowbringers Dancer will be support.
Nintendo Network ID: papercups
3DS FC: 4124 5916 9925

User Info: Blightzkrieg

Blightzkrieg
1 month ago#49
which class has the best outfits in today's skimpy focused meta
https://imgtc.com/i/sIhpHts.jpg

User Info: papercup

papercup
1 month ago#50
Dancer has you covered
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJTHh15yJzw
Nintendo Network ID: papercups
3DS FC: 4124 5916 9925
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  3. ITT I try to convince Nade Duck (and anyone else) to play Final Fantasy XIV