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User Info: Zeus

Zeus
1 month ago#331
ParanoidObsessive posted...
Zeus posted...
Not really, though. The nostalgia isn't purely mechanical, it's based on the characters and story as well --- and usually more so. And there's little reason to release essentially the same game *when* the same game is already available on the platform.

But if they're changing the look of the characters, and giving them voices they didn't have previously, and changing elements of their personality and the narrative they're in... are they really the same characters?

There's a reason why so many film remakes of old TV shows or movies have been hot garbage. When you change everything but the most superficial surface elements of a character, you're sort of changing what was appealing about that character and their story in the first place.



You say that, but the Battlestar Galatica and Doctor Who reboots among others have been hits. Granted, Doctor Who is *somewhat* of a special case, given that it plays into what became a central gimmick. However, if we're talking strictly film remakes of shows, that's a bit silly because the biggest issue is the change of format.

And film remakes tend to flop *because* they're bad, not because they're remakes (although it's worth noting that a lot of material that was successful at one point likely wouldn't have succeeded if it came out today -- it's also a matter of timing). Plus the majority of anything is going to skew mediocre, remakes just catch more heat given their connection to the original material.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...
Zeus posted...
Not really, though. The nostalgia isn't purely mechanical, it's based on the characters and story as well --- and usually more so. And there's little reason to release essentially the same game *when* the same game is already available on the platform.

I was always under the impression that when people actually ask for modern updates of past games, that they basically just want a visual face life. That they already like the game mechanically, just wished it looks more modern. I know when myself or others wished something like GoldenEye would get that treatment, that's all we want (thank you, GE Source!).

Which ofc is different than wishing some old games would get modern sequels, or would spruce a game up to modern mechanics standards as well (Skies of Arcadia and Eternal Darkness immediately come to mind).


Goldeneye is a key example of things just being mechanically outdated. However, the problem is much more than the fact they changed the mechanics. And with Goldeneye it was at least *partly* a matter of it being brought up to modern standards and the standards themselves being underwhelming, unlike say Pokemon FRLG which vastly improved upon RBY and is probably still the best Pokemon game in terms of campaign.
(\/)(\/)|-|
There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist.
(edited 1 month ago)
Zeus posted...
You say that, but the Battlestar Galatica and Doctor Who reboots among others have been hits.

Yeah, but I'd say both of those examples sort of prove my point more than disprove it. Both are cases where the new series kind of pissed off most fans of the original versions (doubly so in Battlestar's case, because it preempted and ruined attempts by Richard Hatch to get an actual remake/reboot/continuation of the original series that was more faithful to the original), and both only really succeeded because they were able to cultivate an entirely new audience (in Doctor Who's case, almost entirely due to David Tennant).

Ironically, both of those shows also went on to alienate that new audience (albeit in different ways), hurting themselves in the long-run. Battlestar tanked hard after the writers' strike, and when the audience realized the writers had absolutely no idea what the answers were to any of the questions they were asking (see also, Lost Syndrome), and Doctor Who's been slowing bleeding off viewers as the writing keeps getting worse/lazier and with the general perception of the overtones getting more and more social justice-y.

But there are plenty of other examples of properties that were rebooted drastically different from the original, which alienated the original audience, and which failed as a result. Arguably, the current situation with Star Trek might fall into that category.

From the perspective of FFVII, it probably will do well - with people who never played FFVII (especially since they're likely aware of its reputation), or who are fans of that genre of gaming in general (ie, the same people who bought FFXV), and because pervasive pre-order culture mentality will have people buying it before reviews come out to dissuade them. But the fans who've actually been pushing to get the game made for 20 years are also the ones most likely to backlash hardest against it - Squeenix won't care because a lot of them will still BUY it (again, the entire point of pre-order culture), but they'll also slag it off big-time online. Which in turn will probably f*** Squeenix over because they stupidly decided to release this thing episodically, which means later episodes are going to suffer from whatever backlash the first episode creates.

"Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76
"POwned again." --- blight family

User Info: Entity13

Entity13
1 month ago#333
So on the site where I'm audience testing my novel, "Elysium Shining," the novel has so far become the 24th longest story of 3800-ish, and may become the 20th when I've posted the remaining chapters and epilogue.

Meanwhile, the buddy of mine who is proofreading it for the minor errors I'd missed, as well as asking a few questions in case I need to add a line or paragraph somewhere, is up to chapter 28. I estimate that, at 3k words a day, the hopefully-final draft will be ready in about forty days.

Then comes the eBooks publishing.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/EntityXIII/entityfn7.jpg

User Info: CyborgSage00x0

CyborgSage00x0
1 month ago#334
Goldeneye is a key example of things just being mechanically outdated. However, the problem is much more than the fact they changed the mechanics. And with Goldeneye it was at least *partly* a matter of it being brought up to modern standards and the standards themselves being underwhelming, unlike say Pokemon FRLG which vastly improved upon RBY and is probably still the best Pokemon game in terms of campaign.

Nah, Source keeps all the same mechanics (universal ammo, simple health/Body Armor system, etc.), because that's exactly what people wanted. And was basically the whole point: it's not like playing as Bond characters or w/e was why people loved the game. It was nostalgia, and nostalgia for the simplistic but fun levels and mechanics. So Source gave it a face lift and kept everything else, and it's great for that.

Your Battlestar point is a good example, although I'd counter in that case, the original was never that good anyways. So anyone being real upset for the update and having nostalgia for the OG probably stems from not knowing any better/having nothing better at the time. It doesn't mean the original was actually GOOD, though.

Entity13 posted...
So on the site where I'm audience testing my novel, "Elysium Shining," the novel has so far become the 24th longest story of 3800-ish, and may become the 20th when I've posted the remaining chapters and epilogue.

That's actually fantastic. I'd like to hear more about this, especially since I've been trying to do the same for years, and my actual jobs keeps me too busy to do so. Want to hear about your story, the process, and the process you have no that you are trying to enter the publishing phase.
PotD's resident Film Expert.

User Info: Entity13

Entity13
1 month ago#335
CyborgSage00x0 posted...
Entity13 posted...
So on the site where I'm audience testing my novel, "Elysium Shining," the novel has so far become the 24th longest story of 3800-ish, and may become the 20th when I've posted the remaining chapters and epilogue.

That's actually fantastic. I'd like to hear more about this, especially since I've been trying to do the same for years, and my actual jobs keeps me too busy to do so. Want to hear about your story, the process, and the process you have no that you are trying to enter the publishing phase.


It's mostly sci fi genre, and is shy of 180k words. It took me two months to write the first draft, using a little time in the mornings, when I wake up, and evenings, before bed. It's the fastest I've ever come up with a story, its characters, and written it.

Once I got to around chp.30 I started posting chapters of the first draft on one site, which I'll take down a week before I go to publish. The feedback thus far has been good. Also at that time I copied chapters to a Google Doc for a buddy of mine to go through.

After finishing the first draft I ran through the story real quick for minor adjustments and typos that I could catch, and then re-copied those chapters (with my friend's early suggestions) to the Google Doc. He has thirty-four chapters (including Epi) to proofread. The main and Google docs are in my preferred format as well.

I'll update my process when I get to the publishing part of the deal, but my friend said to me not to sign any exclusivity, such as Amazon likes to do. So yeah, more on this later.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/EntityXIII/entityfn7.jpg

User Info: Zeus

Zeus
1 month ago#336
ParanoidObsessive posted...
Yeah, but I'd say both of those examples sort of prove my point more than disprove it. Both are cases where the new series kind of pissed off most fans of the original versions (doubly so in Battlestar's case, because it preempted and ruined attempts by Richard Hatch to get an actual remake/reboot/continuation of the original series that was more faithful to the original), and both only really succeeded because they were able to cultivate an entirely new audience (in Doctor Who's case, almost entirely due to David Tennant).

Ironically, both of those shows also went on to alienate that new audience (albeit in different ways), hurting themselves in the long-run. Battlestar tanked hard after the writers' strike, and when the audience realized the writers had absolutely no idea what the answers were to any of the questions they were asking (see also, Lost Syndrome), and Doctor Who's been slowing bleeding off viewers as the writing keeps getting worse/lazier and with the general perception of the overtones getting more and more social justice-y.


The problem with that assessment is that the shows in their ORIGINAL runs went on to alienate fans and that they came so long after their original run that many of their original fans weren't able to watch the programs in their nursing homes. More so, you're arguing that these shows are ultimately failing because they've either ended or hit fatigue, but the same is literally true of the original --- and, I should note, the Battlestar remake ran far longer than the original show.

And the Whoboot's declining quality aside, it had a number of great episodes and seasons.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
But there are plenty of other examples of properties that were rebooted drastically different from the original, which alienated the original audience, and which failed as a result. Arguably, the current situation with Star Trek might fall into that category.


Star Trek is a weird example because it's had multiple spinoffs, etc, at this point. The first effective reboot, TNG, ran twice as long as the original. And even cult favorites like DS9 had reasonably long runs.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
From the perspective of FFVII, it probably will do well - with people who never played FFVII (especially since they're likely aware of its reputation), or who are fans of that genre of gaming in general (ie, the same people who bought FFXV), and because pervasive pre-order culture mentality will have people buying it before reviews come out to dissuade them. But the fans who've actually been pushing to get the game made for 20 years are also the ones most likely to backlash hardest against it - Squeenix won't care because a lot of them will still BUY it (again, the entire point of pre-order culture), but they'll also slag it off big-time online. Which in turn will probably f*** Squeenix over because they stupidly decided to release this thing episodically, which means later episodes are going to suffer from whatever backlash the first episode creates.


So then you're arguing that FFVII isn't banking on nostalgia? >_>

Frankly, having played the original, I'm MORE excited for the new version with these changes whereas I and countless others who played the original might simply feel fatigue at a mere graphical update.
(\/)(\/)|-|
There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist.

User Info: The Wave Master

The Wave Master
4 weeks ago#337
I plan on playing Final Fantasy VII again before the remake drops ea4ly next year. I'm excited for the game, and the Square Enix people seem to be very dedicated in making, and are excited with the results. Sure, it may never reach the heights of the original or create the nostalgic feelings from when I was a teenager, but I am looking forward to what this game holds.

Tje Grandia collection for Switch is going to be a fun trip down memory lane too.
We are who we choose to be.

User Info: I_Abibde

I_Abibde
4 weeks ago#338
*looks up from Star Trek: Discovery*

I'm a little sad they didn't include Grandia X-Treme ... but I'm glad they didn't include Grandia III. Either way, I'll look into how much that's going to cost. Might get it, but I still have the original versions, so ... I don't really have to, but it'd probably be fun.

I should probably do another play of the original FF7, too, but I've got to make time first.
-- I Abibde / Samuraiter
Laughing at Game FAQs since 2002.

User Info: Zeus

Zeus
4 weeks ago#339
You know, the other month I was thinking it was be kinda cool if they made a Gauntlet Legends-style game where the heroes had instruments for weapons.... and now today I learn Aerea is a thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6QeCHMHj1w
(\/)(\/)|-|
There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist.
Reading your post, the first thing I thought of was Loom.

And then I thought of Eternal Sonata.

Not that either of those really fit what you're talking about.

"Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76
"POwned again." --- blight family
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