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User Info: WhiskeyDisk

WhiskeyDisk
3 months ago#101
ParanoidObsessive posted...
Honestly, about the only "young adult" books I have any fondness for at all at this point is probably the Dark is Rising series


Finally! Someone else that knows those books. I was starting to think my having read them as a kid was a Mandela Effect in the making since quite literally nobody else I've ever talked about books with for 30 years ever seemed to know what the hell I was talking about when I've brought them up.

I was certainly not aware they'd made some sort of movie based on them but it wouldn't surprise me to hear it was terrible, even though those books seem exactly like the sort of thing that would translate well to film if the people adapting the screenplay actually read the source material and not a summary.
http://i.imgur.com/4fmtLFt.gif
http://s1.zetaboards.com/sba/ ~there's always free cheese in a mousetrap.
(edited 3 months ago)
Incidentally, I couldn't hyphenate "self aggrandizing" in that above post like I should have, because doing so trips GameFAQs' incredibly s***ty autoflagging system for gay slurs. Which was incredibly annoying because it took me like four re-reads of what I wrote and then having to disassemble the entire post a piece at a time to figure out what was triggering it.

Of course, if the censor detector is sophisticated enough to look for hyphens between letters but too stupid to notice if you just use a space instead, that just underlines even more how stupid it actually is. Even beyond getting into the argument about whether or not you should have autobanned words in a system that already has optional censoring built in anyway.

It reminds me of how I never used to be able to use the word "fetis***ing" in context, because all GameFAQs could see was the "s***" in there, which was auto-banned as a bypass for "s***". Or how you'd occasionally get blocked because the letters at the end of one sentence and the beginning of the next might coincidentally form some word or another GameFAQs didn't like (even if there was punctuation and line spacing in-between), and then you'd have to spend time figuring out what the problem was, then rephrasing what you wrote to fix it.

"Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76
"POwned again." --- blight family

User Info: Zeus

Zeus
3 months ago#103
ParanoidObsessive posted...
I feel like he's the Tim Burton of written work (or maybe Burton is the Gaiman of film). Which is not necessarily a compliment.


Nor would I imagine that anybody would take it as such. While Burton has his charm, it's frankly an unkind comparison. I'll grant you that comparisons between Nightmare Before Christmas, Coraline, and the Corpse Bride are inevitable and more than fair, but Burton's vision has never been particularly grand or sweeping. He's creative, sure, and more than a bit quirky, but there's very rarely a sense of magic or wonder to his work. Rather, he's known for his darkly comedic tone.

That's not to say that I don't enjoy his works -- Batman Returns very well may be my favorite superhero film -- but he's really not the same sort as Gaimon. He's paradoxically both broader and more niche at the same time.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
To Gaiman's credit, I feel like he doesn't fall into the trap of repetition of style as much as Burton does, but there's still a similar sort of ethos there, and it's one I don't really relate to all that well. I might sum it up by describing him as a more visceral sort of writer, whereas I prefer a more cerebral approach, but it's kind of hard to articulate exactly WHAT I feel about his work, or how to define it.


Ironically, I've often found Gaimon to not be visceral enough. Gaimon has a tendency to overthink everything and his stories tend to suffer from the resulting convolutions. Neverwhere is a perfect example, where the work would have been more satisfying had he not tried to work in a twist.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
Death: the High Cost of Living is the book that probably alienated me from his writing the most, and is the main reason I never really felt like dipping deeper into The Sandman as a whole.


If I've read it -- and a little of the premise sounds familiar -- I can't recall it one way or the other. However, that would be a terrible starting book. I got into it from the beginning (so to speak, since I was reading it much after its publication but beginning with volume 1) where it was pulling in established DC characters between the other Sandman (Wesley Dodds), Lucifer, and -- to a lesser extent -- John Dee (with whom I believe I had previously become acquainted through JLU). The origin helped give me a greater buy-in for the character, especially considering that a number of his stories go a little off the rails later on.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
I did admittedly sort of like Marvel 1602, though, so I guess that's a plus for him.


Huh. Did not know he was involved in that. Absolutely loved the story, though.
(\/)(\/)|-|
There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist.
Zeus posted...
Speaking of things re-visited, I recently rewatched Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog which as good or better than I remembered. However, Dr. Horrible himself comes off as a much worse character this viewing since -- while we're supposed to feel badly about Hammer being with Penny because he doesn't truly appreciate her or share her outlook -- I was more cognizant of Horrible being EXACTLY the same, given that he only learned about the fro-yo from spying on her, he consistently lies just to agree with her, etc. On some level, this reading helps me appreciate the loser/dork dynamic of Dr. Horrible compared to Hammer's jock/bully role. While Horrible is more intelligent, he's certainly no better than Hammer in many regards.

So what you're saying is, he's Whedon's self-insert character.



Zeus posted...
As for me, while I can "understand" the principle, I also think it's flat-out stupid. There are a lot of works with terrible fanbases with which I want no association, but I still enjoy the work. Likewise, a creator's other activities usually don't turn me off their work because (for the most part, anyway) I can separate the creation from the creator. Granted, that's a little harder to do with actors and actresses when they have their usual appearance and mannerisms.

I think it's more an issue that, when you see something is appealing to a large group of terrible people, you almost can't help but wonder what aspect of the work is drawing those terrible people in, which in turn starts to make you more hyper-critical of the work, more aware of flaws you might otherwise have missed, and ultimately more likely to dislike or dismiss the work out of hand whereas you might otherwise have found it more inoffensive or mediocre. It's not rejecting the work because of the fanbase directly, but the fanbase indirectly makes you more aware of things that drive you away in and of themselves.

(Which is not to say that some people DON'T immediately knee-jerk reject things because of the fans, or the opinions/ideology of the writer/creator, but I don't think that's ALWAYS the motivating factor.)

And even on a more visceral level, humans can't necessarily help associating the actors from the activity. I didn't join the Gaming Guild in my college because most of the people in it were even more cringey-nerd than I was and it was almost physically uncomfortable to be around them, in spite of the fact that we shared multiple similar interests (video games, RPGs, CCGs, etc). In terms of a fandom, if the most vocal members of a fanbase are complete sperglords or neckbeard mouth-breathers, you may find yourself unconsciously pulling away from greater interaction with the overall community or property in general. Which in turn can easily influence your affection (or lack thereof) for the shared media (ie, you're more likely to love something you can share with others - hence the entire point of the geek topics! - while you might grow more disillusioned if you feel you almost sort of need to keep your interest hidden or simply have no one to discuss it with).

"Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76
"POwned again." --- blight family
Zeus posted...
More generally, expectations and preconceptions can be a bit of a double-edged sword. When I go into something expecting disappointment or dislike, I think I've sometimes been more receptive to appreciate certain elements. Likewise, the height of my expectations can have a tendency to exceed the quality of a work, resulting in a more critical eye.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. There are tons of movies and games I feel like I've enjoyed more because I expected them to be terrible (or because I didn't pay full price for them), while over-hype can absolutely doom a game by setting up expectations that can never be realistically met.

But I don't feel like that's something we can ever really avoid as humans, either, because it's kind of hardwired directly into how our brains evaluate the world. Even when people are like, "I am going to judge this thing without preconceptions," there is still some degree of bias involved, just based on prior experience and current perception. No human has ever gone into any situation as a complete blank slate that is entirely open to new experiences. Even newborns aren't that open.

That being said, yes, a person can TRY to minimize that bias by tempering their expectations, and that's a good thing to do to try and be open to new things, but ultimately whether or not we enjoy a given work or not might hinge entirely on whether or not we had a cold or indigestion the day we saw it, or if we view it through nostalgia-lenses.



Zeus posted...
He apparently wrote at least two. Unless you mean the one he wrote and directed?

I meant The Doctor's Wife, though I did realize that (in this topic, of all topics) someone might bring up the other one.

Nightmare in Silver struck me as a relatively mediocre and inoffensive episode at a time when I was already slowly growing disenfranchised with the series as a whole, so it doesn't really stick in my brain all that much. But The Doctor's Wife is the one that feels like it got tons of praise though, and is also the one I really kind of disliked on multiple levels, so it's the one that stands out for me way more (and thus, the one I tend to think of as being "HIS" episode, especially when I'm criticizing his work).

"Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76
"POwned again." --- blight family

User Info: WhiskeyDisk

WhiskeyDisk
3 months ago#106
My favorite autoflag that it took GFaqs nearly a decade to fix was "wristwatch/pocket watch".

Now if only we could get Zeus to spell Gaiman properly I can stop having this terrible mental image of Neil dressed like a Ferengi keep popping up in my head as the discussion continues...
http://i.imgur.com/4fmtLFt.gif
http://s1.zetaboards.com/sba/ ~there's always free cheese in a mousetrap.

User Info: Zeus

Zeus
3 months ago#107
ParanoidObsessive posted...
Also, to be fair to him, at the time of his initial popularity boom, when he was getting lumped in with Frank Miller and Alan Moore as THE "mature" writers, he always seemed like the least terrible of the three to me. Given the choice between the three, and being forced to be trapped in an elevator with one of them for a few hours, I'd probably pick Gaiman.


I'm acknowledging but not even touching that remark. On the second thought, no, I'm going to give props to Alan Moore whose work I've generally enjoyed. Not just for Watchmen, but for a lot of his other stories as well. ffs, he wrote "For the Man who has Everything," which is one of my all-time favorite Superman stories.

I would very much enjoy being able to converse with Gaimon and Moore at length, and yes, I'm very well aware what Moore can be like.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
Thankfully, the later releases sort of start to drop that mentality (which is probably a good thing, because if the entirety of White Wolf had stayed Anne Rich pastiche/hippie propaganda/childhood wonder squee that it started as, I probably wouldn't have fallen in love with it as much as I did once it settled the f*** down and started acting more like a game than an emo kid's high school poetry.


White Wolf I broadly ignored except for Rage and, even then, it was more for the CCG.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
That's not really a plus for me, because I've never really connected with "children's" or "young adult" writing for decades. It's part of why I've never really liked Harry Potter, either.


I'm going to be honest: I scoffed at Harry Potter consistently when the books were coming out and disliked the first few films, but after getting a free copy of Deathly Hallows and voraciously reading it over the course of a week, I've kinda come around a little. Since then, I've grabbed some of the books and films to just binge whenever I get the full set.
(\/)(\/)|-|
There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist.
WhiskeyDisk posted...
Finally! Someone else that knows those books. I was starting to think my having read them as a kid was a Mandela Effect in the making since quite literally nobody else I've ever talked about books with for 30 years ever seemed to know what the hell I was talking about when I've brought them up.

I got them from a Scholastic book fair around the same time I got the entire Narnia series and the first few Bunnicula books.

I definitely liked the more occulty, mythological books in the series (ie, the ones with Will, Merriman, and Bran) more than I did the ones with the Drew kids, and The Dark is Rising itself was probably my favorite of the series (with Silver on the Tree a close second), but I did (and still do) like the series as a whole.

If memory serves, I think I came into them before I actually read Tolkien, but after I'd already fallen in love with Tolkien by way of the animated Lord of the Rings cartoon. So I was pretty much primed for fantasy but hadn't yet graduated up into purely adult-aimed works. It was also around the same time that I was transitioning from more vanilla CYOA books into gamebooks like Lone Wolf.

As an aside, I never really liked Narnia as much, though I did sort of like The Silver Chair and The Magician's Nephew.



WhiskeyDisk posted...
I was certainly not aware they'd made some sort of movie based on them but it wouldn't surprise me to hear it was terrible, even though those books seem exactly like the sort of thing that would translate well to film if the people adapting the screenplay actually read the source material and not a summary.

Never, ever, EVER attempt to look into its existence, no matter what. You might think that you want to know, even in a "can't look away from a car accident" sort of morbid way, but you don't. That dark abyss of torment was not meant for mortal eyes or souls to know.

>_>

<_<

>_>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQrfaRFucbI

For the record, it's actually worse than that trailer makes it seem (and that trailer makes it seem very, very bad).

Basically, after Harry Potter came out and was a success, studios started rushing to find the next young adult property they could cannibalize into a film series (see also, the main reason why The Hunger Games got greenlit, and why there are so many Hunger Games clones now), and someone found The Dark is Rising. And then, because film execs are 100% a******s who are actually incapable of understanding concepts like "art" or "joy", they decided they had to rewrite the entire thing into a localized and focus-tested nightmare mess (ie, what some execs had initially wanted to do with Harry Potter as well, and similar to the notorious original intention for how DiC was going to localize Sailor Moon back in the day), in which nearly every single role was utterly miscast, and terrible on almost every conceivable level. Like, it was the movie you'd make if someone asked you to create the fundamental, antimatter universal opposite of The Dark is Rising.

I saw it in a theater for free, and still almost walked out to demand my money back at least three times.

The movie is also the reason why I loathe Alexander Ludwig on a visceral, primal level, and assume literally any movie he is cast in must be terrible. Like a Dark Midas, everything he comes into contact with turns to s***.

I did not like the movie, is what I am saying, in case you didn't quite pick up on that.

"Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76
"POwned again." --- blight family

User Info: Zeus

Zeus
3 months ago#109
WhiskeyDisk posted...
ParanoidObsessive posted...
Honestly, about the only "young adult" books I have any fondness for at all at this point is probably the Dark is Rising series


Finally! Someone else that knows those books. I was starting to think my having read them as a kid was a Mandela Effect in the making since quite literally nobody else I've ever talked about books with for 30 years ever seemed to know what the hell I was talking about when I've brought them up.

I was certainly not aware they'd made some sort of movie based on them but it wouldn't surprise me to hear it was terrible, even though those books seem exactly like the sort of thing that would translate well to film if the people adapting the screenplay actually read the source material and not a summary.


Given that it's a moderately known name, I'm surprised you had difficulty in finding people who had heard of them. Granted, I'm not entirely sure I was aware of them *before* the film although I likely had heard of the series even then.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
Incidentally, I couldn't hyphenate "self aggrandizing" in that above post like I should have, because doing so trips GameFAQs' incredibly s***ty autoflagging system for gay slurs. Which was incredibly annoying because it took me like four re-reads of what I wrote and then having to disassemble the entire post a piece at a time to figure out what was triggering it.


Been there.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
So what you're saying is, he's Whedon's self-insert character.


Kek.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
And even on a more visceral level, humans can't necessarily help associating the actors from the activity. I didn't join the Gaming Guild in my college because most of the people in it were even more cringey-nerd than I was and it was almost physically uncomfortable to be around them, in spite of the fact that we shared multiple similar interests (video games, RPGs, CCGs, etc). In terms of a fandom, if the most vocal members of a fanbase are complete sperglords or neckbeard mouth-breathers, you may find yourself unconsciously pulling away from greater interaction with the overall community or property in general. Which in turn can easily influence your affection (or lack thereof) for the shared media (ie, you're more likely to love something you can share with others - hence the entire point of the geek topics! - while you might grow more disillusioned if you feel you almost sort of need to keep your interest hidden or simply have no one to discuss it with).


I don't necessarily need a community to enjoy a property. While there are certainly some properties which don't work in the absence of other people (most notably CCGs, although there are video game versions), most properties stand fine on their own. Since it's been mentioned a few times in this topic already, I'm a Pokemon fan. Back when the franchise was getting started, there was a tremendous community for it and I had a decent amount of interaction. However, since then I've still maintained that interest and bought at least the main title from each generation despite broadly dropping out of the community as a whole in gen 3.

And, in general, since at least some of my interests can be associated with younger crowds, I'm used to keeping them a bit closeted. Unless I share an interest with somebody, I'm not going to talk about that interest (except maybe if specifically asked).
(\/)(\/)|-|
There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist.

User Info: Zeus

Zeus
3 months ago#110
Randomly learned that Tailchaser's Song is getting an animated film next year after I was thinking about things I enjoyed but have never discussed with anybody and decided to check the wikepedia page because I recalled it being a Tad Williams work.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
Nightmare in Silver struck me as a relatively mediocre and inoffensive episode at a time when I was already slowly growing disenfranchised with the series as a whole, so it doesn't really stick in my brain all that much.


It was a competent but unambitious episode. Every single episode doesn't need to go in a different direction or push the continuity. After all, to celebrate the difference of certain episodes ("Midnight," for instance, which is a rare episode where the Doctor flies solo or "Blink" where the Doctor is solely a supporting character (and, I might mention, was the episode that got me into the show)) you need a certain norm.

"Nightmare in Silver" had a solid setting, some neat characters, and a reasonably good story.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
and the first few Bunnicula books.


You know, my cousin had never even heard of Bunnicula. What a f***ing depressing childhood there.
(\/)(\/)|-|
There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist.
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