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User Info: Aarom

Aarom
1 week ago#51
Rethalwolf posted...
Or it could be like BotW, where there is no story, only a bunch of disjointed missions that have no importance except getting rid of the streamers. Unlike the Chapter-based missions, where you were going for a crystal heart/star, but in order to do so you had to complete a story along the way. Like how each partner was a necessary addition to the crew, and tied into the mission objective. Without partners acting as keys to progression - which is a likely symptom of an open world, plus what we've seen about partners - it's likely that the story will be even less than the first two games.

The only argument I've seen in favor of that is "they didn't have much story to begin with". Sure, I'd be willing to concede that. But even less is still even worse. Have higher standards, people. You're accepting "not that terrible" downgrades over wanting actual improvements, or even just not accepting downgrades. It's a bad look.
So same thing but you can do them out of order it can still be each area with a mini storyline that does help to the end goal we can already see some of that. It's almost no different all that is really different is choosing which you do first and the game stopping momentum to tell you that your in another chapter.

User Info: Sentinel07

Sentinel07
1 week ago#52
McmadnessV3 posted...
And yeah sure, BOTW totally doesn't have a plot, apart from all the characters, background lore, major events depicted on screen. Yeah sure, no plot at all.
Yeah, a half-assed plot. They barely developed any of those things. It's like they threw darts and went with whatever stuck.

BotW has one of the most inconsistent and dysfunctional plots I've ever seen in a video game. Maybe if they actually took the time to actually develop it it might not have turned out so bad.

User Info: Rethalwolf

Rethalwolf
1 week ago#53
Sentinel07 posted...
Yeah, a half-assed plot. They barely developed any of those things. It's like they threw darts and went with whatever stuck.

BotW has one of the most inconsistent and dysfunctional plots I've ever seen in a video game. Maybe if they actually took the time to actually develop it it might not have turned out so bad.
You.
I like you.
"The point of war is not to die for your country. It's to make the enemy die for his."

User Info: Kantiran

Kantiran
1 week ago#54
Rethalwolf posted...
Can you name any linear games that don't have linear stories?
Depends on how you define "nonlinear stories". There are a decent number of primarily linear games that have branching story paths, different endings etc (mainline Shin Megami Tensei being my prime example here) . I do agree there aren't any linear games where you can do stuff in any order you want (in that case it wouldn't be linear anymore I guess) but there are definetly games that are primarily linear but your actions can change the story, sometimes in pretty drastic ways.

User Info: Dark_SilverX

Dark_SilverX
1 week ago#55
Change is what we need. This is great news and should have a lot of replayability because of this.

Nintendo are absolute wizards. Damn yo. Straight warriors from another planet. Getting extremely hyped just thinking about the Origami King.
Maketh thy Countries Greateth Again
don't compare games to feces -- if you've an opinion worth mentioning, do so civilly

User Info: Rethalwolf

Rethalwolf
1 week ago#56
Kantiran posted...
Depends on how you define "nonlinear stories". There are a decent number of primarily linear games that have branching story paths, different endings etc (mainline Shin Megami Tensei being my prime example here) . I do agree there aren't any linear games where you can do stuff in any order you want (in that case it wouldn't be linear anymore I guess) but there are definetly games that are primarily linear but your actions can change the story, sometimes in pretty drastic ways.
Yeah I hadn't considered branching stories. Even the Fallout games aren't that linear, seeing as you can often accomplish objectives out of order, on top of the branching. It makes it difficult to define. I think a linear game has to be defined as having clear barriers to progression that have to be bypassed by (main?) story-driven events. In the case of Fallout/ES, you can usually - if not always - bypass barriers by just doing whatever you want. You can skip chunks of story if you do things without the story telling you to. I think that makes it hard to call it a linear game or linear story.
Branching in an of itself, though, is another matter. As long as the key branching points have to occur in a specific order, and you have to hit all the story points that connect one branching point to the next, then I think it's fair to call it a linear game.
"The point of war is not to die for your country. It's to make the enemy die for his."

User Info: arvilino

arvilino
1 week ago#57
Rethalwolf posted...
The only argument I've seen in favor of that is "they didn't have much story to begin with". Sure, I'd be willing to concede that. But even less is still even worse. Have higher standards, people. You're accepting "not that terrible" downgrades over wanting actual improvements, or even just not accepting downgrades. It's a bad look

You've got it backwards. If a game's story didn't need to be detailed and hardly required the linearity(self-contained chapters) in level design to tell it, but one of the series flaws was level design. The level design would be the main area for improvement, not the story.

People are open to the level design being improved, because the trailers show the same level of character interaction the series is known. In some they may even be better because Olivia and the current party are out at the same time and the revolving party means that each scene can be designed around the characters involved.
Check out Wonder Robot D(RPG)
https://rpgmaker.net/games/11045/

User Info: Rethalwolf

Rethalwolf
1 week ago#58
arvilino posted...
You've got it backwards. If a game's story didn't need to be detailed and hardly required the linearity(self-contained chapters) in level design to tell it, but one of the series flaws was level design. The level design would be the main area for improvement, not the story.

People are open to the level design being improved, because the trailers show the same level of character interaction the series is known. In some they may even be better because Olivia and the current party are out at the same time and the revolving party means that each scene can be designed around the characters involved.
Just because the level design should be improved doesn't mean the story should suffer for it, no matter how "unimportant it was" or how "little it suffered". Both should be improved. Also, making something open world does not inherently improve level design. If anything, it's lazy and boring. Obstacles create puzzles and challenges for exploration and progression. When you can go anywhere right off the bat, that goes out the window. Going from typical LoZ games to BotW was basically like allowing you to go directly to Mother Brain in Metroid. Open world in Paper Mario is likely to suffer from the same problem.

We won't know til we play, but this is just another thing that's giving me doubts.
"The point of war is not to die for your country. It's to make the enemy die for his."

User Info: DylanYoshi

DylanYoshi
1 week ago#59
God I hate this. How many games have to go open world that don't need it? Breath of the Wild, Final Fantasy XV, and Metal Gear Solid V all had these huge pointless open worlds that hurt the design far more than it helped them. Seriously f*** this trend where everything has to be open-world.

User Info: arvilino

arvilino
1 week ago#60
Rethalwolf posted...
Just because the level design should be improved doesn't mean the story should suffer for it, no matter how "unimportant it was" or how "little it suffered". Both should be improved. Also, making something open world does not inherently improve level design. If anything, it's lazy and boring. Obstacles create puzzles and challenges for exploration and progression. When you can go anywhere right off the bat, that goes out the window. Going from typical LoZ games to BotW was basically like allowing you to go directly to Mother Brain in Metroid. Open world in Paper Mario is likely to suffer from the same problem.

With format of Paper Mario's scenarios the story won't suffer from it at all because each area/chapter never really relied on the events of a previous one to tell its story. In addition you can have an open world with obstacles and roadblocks, you can pretty much see from the level design and screen transitions this game is more like Majora's Mask than BOTW.

Also it's not inherently bad design like you're arguing, but the case they've went out to change it shows they are putting effort to address it. Like that one screenshot with 7 points of interest on one screen:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/290355-paper-mario-the-origami-king/78805276

It was never a problem in BOTW letting you go straight to Ganon. But since Peach's castle is being blocked by the Streamers and Luigi's subquest to get the keys. You probably can't fight the final boss off the bat.
Check out Wonder Robot D(RPG)
https://rpgmaker.net/games/11045/
(edited 1 week ago)
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