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  3. Forget Jill's costume, what's with her crappy voice and personality? *SPOILERS*
Furryyiffer posted...
Great cover for what? Umbrella literally has several bioweapons going through town to kill anyone who might find out anything, one literally designed to hunt her team down that she has likely crossed paths with before and in the original version iirc is what Carlos helped rescue her from in the first place. Umbrella's intentions are quite clearly to murder her team so what exactly would people working under them have to gain by keeping her alive?
Especially when paired with the fact that she would know at the very least that with Wesker's betrayal and the RPD's refusal to take STARS seriously after the incident that the people working under a company aren't always going to be on board with or know the entirety of what's going on with the higher ups.
Especially for a company like Umbrella that is already hiding a great deal of things.

There is very good reason to be suspicious of new people that work for an evil company in the situation but there's also a lot that wouldn't add up to straight "they work for bad guys so they must be evil".

Also wouldn't that work in reverse? She thinks they are evil, keeping them close means if they try to do something evil she is better able to stop them.
I do believe that, at the time, none of the team were aware of Wesker's betrayal of Umbrella, just his betrayal of S.T.A.R.S. (it's an acronym people, it's not that much extra effort for f*** sake) My point was that she has every reason to be suspicious of, and by proxy, have an attitude with, the U.B.C.S. when she doesn't know their true motivations. For all she knows, what they're saying and doing is part of their contract, as (by Carlos' own admission) they're just hired guns.
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: WeaverSerawl

1 week ago#172
This REmake looks worse by the minute
Bertha Hippo for Super Smash Bros. on Switch!

User Info: Darkside_Hazuki

1 week ago#173
KungGuld posted...
"I'm not wrong, you're wrong."
^That's all you needed to say, dude. I read your replies and they can all be summed up with this:

--You don't take any accountability for the things that you say when they make you look bad. You instead try to feel like you've been "wrongfully grouped" with other people that are saying the exact same (bad) things you are. It's just pure deflection.

--You keep trying to make points by saying "nuance" and "gray" but without actually making points, and you don't even bother to create a foundation to make any points. You instead pretend to see something that nobody else (but you) can see, not even Capcom...and you know someone is in trouble when they lack more coherent vision than Capcom.

--You waste time and muddy your posts by trying to use phrases like "Mary Sue", "literally" and "nuance" (might as well throw "strawman" in there due to the irony I pointed out in post #160) only to reveal that you don't have a good understanding of said phrases or have a grasp of when they're applicable. It causes communication breakdowns and it prevents you (and the other person) from getting anywhere, but instead of trying to use your own words you just double-down on trying to sound smarter than you are and refuse to actually learn how to unpackage your points.

This is the worst time in the world for public education to be closing down.

Anyway, I can only take so much of someone denying facts when they are typed-out in detail right in front of them and not communicating properly. I can lead a horse to water but I can't make 'em drink if it's too stubborn. You can just keep feeling offended for being called out, keep trying to use terms that you do not properly comprehend, and keep trying to take back the things you say after they incriminate you...but you'll never learn anything with that routine. I hope you do much better in discussions using your first language than you do in your second.
"This is what makes a legend!" - Terry, KoF '99
RE Outbreak/PSN: Stick_Breitling; Metal Gear Online: Gabe LOGAN

User Info: Darkside_Hazuki

1 week ago#174
luigi33 posted...
She should be this grim and jaded on life.

SteelDragon2050 posted...
My point was that she has every reason to be suspicious of, and by proxy, have an attitude with, the U.B.C.S. when she doesn't know their true motivations.

OverlordDeath posted...
Cool, one or two good acts...think that's really enough to earn her trust after all the crap she's been through? Again, for all she knows they're pretending to be nice.

iori_iezzi posted...
Why would she be nice to an Umbrella Corp. member? lol

I have a really strange feeling that none of the users above saw the same cutscenes that the rest of us did, so here's some visual aid:

From 00:12 to 2:52 (the train scene + her first radio call with Carlos)

Remember two things...
1.) These scenes take place after an event described as: "In her most desperate moment she was rescued by an unknown man named Carlos."
2.) We're not certain if Carlos has already explained to Jill that him and Mikhail are not Umbrella employees, only hired mercenaries (which is something Carlos did in their first encounter in the original RE3).

After watching these scenes:
--She doesn't appear grim or jaded "on life" in the least.
--She doesn't verbally or physically express being "suspicious of" or appear to be wondering about their "true motivations".
--In fact, she cracks a smile (or grin, whatever you wanna call it), firmly declares "Alright, I'm in", and her first radio call with Carlos has her sounding productive and objective with him ("Working on it. So what's the plan?").
--No signs of trauma, PTSD, stress, or wariness. She just seems like another video game character with a bad voice actress.

Her saying "But I am on their side. Not yours." is left up to interpretation. To me it doesn't sound like it's in the realm of trust or untrust, but more like affiliation. She fights for the city to save civilians, not for mercenaries to clean up Umbrella's mess.

As I said in the very first post in this thread:
--She seems lax. ("Well, you can thank your corporate overlords for that.")
--She seems almost unconcerned with the struggle Mikhail and Carlos had to rescue the civilians in the train car next door. ("Right...how's that going for ya?")
--Her tone is very as-matter-of-fact. ("It's Jill" and "I know what a radio is.")

I'm waiting for another GameFAQs user who dropped out of college 4 credits away from their Psychology degree to declare:
"It's a defense mechanism from her past trauma!!!"

In conclusion: You all are exaggerating. In these scenes Jill is upright, composed, and coordinating with Carlos to get the job done. I just think her presentation (and actress) is underwhelming and she's oddly crabby (note: crabby does not insinuate "emotionally distraught" or "suffering from PTSD"). I described Jill earlier as "somewhere between a passive-aggressive mumbling teenager and an unhappy girlfriend whose not telling you what you did to make her angry." Watching these scenes again leaves me with no reason to say otherwise.

@ 3:31 in that video Jill has another a stable radio conversation with Carlos that is completely objective, containing a hint that Jill sees Carlos as more of an annoying co-worker.

And @ 5:17 when Nemesis appears...she just makes a quiet observation off-camera and gameplay quickly resumes. It doesn't seem like she's terrified or emotionally strained. It's just video game character as usual.

OverlordDeath posted...
There's also the fact that there's no way in hell she's fully recovered from the mansion incident.
Here's another 3-year dropout trying to install emotional dread and theatrics into video game scenes where they are clearly not present. You'd make an awful psychologist.

Also, from an earlier comment you made: undermining Carlos rescuing Jill, and Mikhail risking his body to procure half-a-dozen civilians with "Cool, one or two good acts" is pretty obtuse of you. I think there are better ways to be a REmake3 Jill-personality apologist than undercutting heroic deeds that are already accomplished and in plain sight.

SteelDragon2050 posted...
One must keep his friends close, and his enemies even closer. Attempting a rescue op, and having her help, would be great cover, Jill clearly realizes this possibility.
Dear god, this is some rough sensationalizing and conspiracy juice. If I were you I'd sign up for the earliest online Writing course in the first community college that's willing to take you.

luigi33 posted...
Jill is the character that has gotten screwed the most in the entire franchise. I made a topic the other day about this and people there really put things into perspective. Think about what she has been through so far, and what she will eventually end up going through in the future. She lost so many of her comrades and friends, her hometown is in sinking into the T-Virus and is nearly destroyed, she tried to do the right thing to take down the cooporation that ruined her and that ends up failing and now she's forced to work with people from that very same company.

Add this ontop of the fact that she'll eventually become the mindslave to Wesker who probably put her through nightmarish and perverse torture all while her mind was aware of what was going on...her personality in this game is far more accurate than her bubbly personality in the old games. She should be this grim and jaded on life. Her past was horrific, and her future is not going to be any better.
I've already shown that Jill is not presented as "grim and jaded". As for the rest of your post:
1.) The way you wrote this sounds like you're applying Jill's future events in Resident Evil 5 as a way to put things into "perspective" as you circle back into how you feel she is behaving REmake3...which makes absolutely no sense chronologically. If you're going to try to make excuses for her awful portrayal here then your method is probably the worst way to do it, even from a fanboy perspective. It plainly lacks storyboard rationale.
2.) Jill was never "bubbly". I don't know what you think that word completely means. She was never highly animated, a constant ray of sunshine, or smiling her way to the conclusion.
3.) Speaking of "perverse" your probabilities of things that Wesker did to Jill are disturbingly amplified and reaching. I'm not sure how you sleep at night when your vision of everything is much, much more dreadful than what is actually disclosed.
"This is what makes a legend!" - Terry, KoF '99
RE Outbreak/PSN: Stick_Breitling; Metal Gear Online: Gabe LOGAN
WeaverSerawl posted...
This REmake looks worse by the minute
Nu gamers..Such a disgrace. Content on spending more for absolute LESS and dont care they are getting ripped off.

User Info: mdrXip

1 week ago#176
Venage27 posted...
I don't know why people are defending this because "that's how a real person with Umbrella PTSD would realistically react". Personally, I don't give a f*** about a real person would react, I don't want to see a real person, I want to see Jill Valentine, a fictional character with a well established personality, never before in the previous games she gave me a hint that she was a edgy b****, her personality was that of a professional, similar to Chris.
If Batman acted like clown and The Joker acted sane(in the main universe not an alternate universe) would people still defending this? Characters contradicting their previous established personalities. I don't understand why people accept this with the RE characters...

Fanboys really want to like this game, even if they have to make up a better version of it inside their heads.

User Info: Makio

1 week ago#177
you have great debate skills tc

teach me your ways
In darkness blooms the spider lily...

User Info: Aqua_Light_13

1 week ago#178
Imagine arguing for pages and pages about a fictional character that will surely develop during the game and warm up to the people she hated at the beginning. I mean we know the whole story already.

But have you seen everything? Have you seen all of her interactions with Carlos and Mikhail? Have you played the whole game? Is that how she's going to be for the entirety of the game?
If that's the case, then your "criticisms" would have a point, but right now, these arguments are pointless and a waste of time.
So Jill is hateful and judgmental to the UBCS in the beginning, that's not far from what you're doing to her character right now.

User Info: KungGuld

1 week ago#179
Darkside_Hazuki posted...
"I'll make stuff up and attack that"

Yes and that's exactly what the strawman fallacy is, so hate the expression all you want, it's your whole "debating" strategy and it's just too obvious when you do it.

User Info: JillsJugs

1 week ago#180
100% agree with Darkside_Hazuki on all his points. Honestly I had to log into this site just to say how wonderfully you've articulated every single problem I have with her characterisation in this segment of the game.

The lines she spoke and the tone in which she said them made me wince heavily upon first hearing. Someone else mentioned how she comes off petty and childish and I couldn't agree more. I also didn't like her voice from the very first moment I heard it in this game and still don't.

Thanks for showing actual intelligence on this board btw. It's so rare to find users on these forums who can discuss and argue their points with clarity and intellect.

All the best.
(edited 1 week ago)
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