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  3. 4 Star artifacts, more than just fodder?

User Info: Joflyer

1 month ago#1
I was getting big mad over trying to grind a set for my C6 Noelle, and have been kicking myself for using a 4* Geo Dmg Goblet with double crit for fodder because it's exactly the piece I needed to finish this build. Curious, I decided to take a break from endless Guyun to actually see how much of a difference 4* vs 5* actually makes. I used Xinyan as an example because she's who I already had open on the calculator when I decided to do this. There's nothing deeper to it.

5* Artifacts vs 4* Artifacts

C0 Lv80 Xinyan, All Talents Lv 6, R1 Lv80 Serpent Spine, No Stacks

2 Piece Bloodstained
2 Piece Gladiators

Atk%, Phys Dmg%, Crit Dmg%

All artifacts at max level for rarity.

No Sub stats Average DPS
Full 5 *= 5270

Full 4*= 4191
Single 4*, Rest 5*
Feather= 4998

Time Piece= 4999

Goblet= 4844

Circlet= 5083
Two 4*, Rest 5*
Feather + Time Piece=4724

Feather + Goblet= 4595

Feather + Circlet= 4821

Time Piece + Goblet = 4595

Time Piece + Circlet = 4821

Goblet + Circlet = 4673
Three 4*, Rest 5*
Feather, Time Piece, Goblet = 4345

Feather, Time Piece, Circlet=4559

Feather, Goblet, Circlet=4431

Time Piece, Goblet, Circlet=4191

Sub Stats, Atk 4.1%, Crit Rate 2.7%, Crit Damage 5.4% (Replacing duplicates with Atk 16)

Full 5*= 6815

Full 4*= 5427

Full 4* with one upgrade to each Atk sub stat, doubling value= 5934

Single 4*, Rest 5*

Feather= 6493

Time Piece= 6493


Circlet= 6518
Single 4* with one Atk Upgrade, doubling value, Rest 5*
Feather= 6605

Time Piece= 6558


Circlet= 6625
Two 4*, Rest 5*

Feather + Time Piece=6172

Feather + Goblet= 5969

Feather + Circlet= 6210

Time Piece + Goblet= 5969

Time Piece + Circlet= 6211

Goblet + Circlet = 5992
Two 4*, with one Atk upgrade each, doubling value, Rest 5*

Feather + Time Piece=6348

Feather + Goblet= 6174

Feather + Circlet= 6424

Time Piece + Goblet= 6131

Time Piece + Circlet= 6380

Goblet + Circlet = 6188
Three 4*, Rest 5*

Feather, Time Piece, Goblet=5673

Feather, Time Piece, Circlet=5903

Feather, Goblet, Circlet=5709

Time Piece, Goblet, Circlet=5709

Three 4*, with one Atk upgrade each, doubling value, Rest 5*

Feather, Time Piece, Goblet=5938

Feather, Time Piece, Circlet=6179

Feather, Goblet, Circlet=6004

Time Piece, Goblet, Circlet=5963

The reason I decided to calculate with no sub-stats is that they are a variable we have next to no control over, so seeing what the raw numbers look like without them helps put things into perspective.

Next, I decided to put an “ideal” sub-stat setup, just for the sake of comparisons. Make no mistake, having double crit and atk on every 5* piece in your set is probably harder than rolling a C6 Mona.

For those that don't know, the actual sub-stat value is itself a random variable pulled from a pool, with 5-star artifacts having the potential to have a “base” sub-stat higher than a 4 star. The specific numbers I chose for the sub-stats are variables shared between 4 star and 5-star artifact pools. Well, technically there's a 0.1% difference between a few, but I didn't consider a fraction of a percentage to be enough to skew the results significantly. This isn't meant to be 100% accurate anyway, just something to get a general comparison between 4 stars and 5 stars.

The reason I had most of them kept at their level 0 variable is that when sub-stat levels up, it's actually random how much it goes up by. Trying to account for that is a fool's errand. I calculated for a level up on the atk sub-stat for the 4 stars to give a nod to the fact that you can be a lot pickier with your sub-stats on 4 stars. Whereas, with a 5 star, sometimes you've just gotta take what you have cause it's the best you'll get, even if it Def, Def%, HP, Crit Rate%.

You're free to make your own conclusions based on this. My personal conclusion, however, is as follows.
Gamers aren't oppressed, but they absolutely deserve to be.

User Info: Joflyer

1 month ago#2
Other than sub-stats, flowers don't affect DPS at all and can be replaced with a 4 star with next to no consequence. Stating the obvious but might as well throw it out there.

All things being equal 5-star artifacts are significantly better than 4-star artifacts. I don't think anyone needed to be told that. However, what I found interesting, is that the disparity between 4 star and 5-star artifacts aren't as much as I thought they'd be. There's a significant disparity between them, don't get me wrong, but not so much that I'd personally consider the build non-viable when you mix and match a few artifacts.

A full 4-star artifact set with relevant sub-stats does out DPS a full 5 star set with no relevant sub-stats. Not by much, mind you, but it does, which goes to show how much value you're getting out of sub-stats, something you can much pickier about with 4-star artifacts. I didn't show it here, but a 4-star artifact that has had their atk% sub-stat boosted 2 times by 4.1% compared to a 5* artifact with only one boost of 4.1% has less than 100 points of DPS between the two. A really good 4-star artifact has the possibility to outdo a mediocre 5-star artifact. Not accounting for rarity, there are 5 layers of RNG for artifacts.

-Artifact Set
-Artifact Slot
-Main Stat
-Level ups

If you account for the variable pools that sub-stat pull from, there are actually 7 layers of RNG. With a 4-1 drop rate for 4-star artifacts to 5 stars, that maze of RNG is certainly a lot easier to navigate with 4 stars than 5 stars. Especially in the case of something like Brave Heart vs Gladiators Finale for the 2 piece bonus, I'd go so far as to say you're better off farming for a Brave Heart piece with the sub-stats to make up the difference than even attempting for a Gladiators with just the right main-stat, at least until AR55. Even then, the drop in Resin efficiency is rough.

My take away from this is that I'm not gonna obsess over 5-star artifacts as much. Grinding for the right 5-star artifact can be a seriously miserable experience, and can really start to grind on my goodwill towards the game. It can take days to even literal weeks to get just the right 5* to complete a set, and it could still end up pretty mediocre with its sub-stats. Meanwhile, all this time, it's entirely possible that 4-star artifacts sitting in the box about to be used for fodder could have been used to complete the build. On top of that, if its sub-stats were good and it leveled up favorably, it may have even ended up better than the 5 stars you'd have eventually just settled with.

Obviously, Genshin Impact's entire end game is min-maxing your character, so if that's what you wanna do, more power to you, but for someone like me who has multiple characters I want to build, as well as mora, exp, talents, and ascensions to grind for, it may be worth it to just slot in a few 4 stars to complete the build, having it be almost as good and just moving on. It could end up saving you days, if not, weeks of grinding, thousands of resin, and if you're a mega-whale doing full refreshes, literally hundreds of dollars (Or at least your dollars are now spent more efficiently).

I'm not trying to over-hype 4 star artifacts, there are significant downsides, a major one being a significant power drop. You really do need to get some good sub-rolls to make up the difference. However, the difference isn't as significant as you may think, especially when you consider how much easier it is to get favorable sub-stats on 4-star gear than 5-star gear.

Just something to consider, at the very least. Especially if your someone like me who's in no rush to get to the spiral abyss anytime soon.

Here are the resources I used if anyone wants to check the math. Truth be told, I'm not used to this kinda big-brain super-sweaty power-gamer number-crunching stuff so I wouldn't be surprised if I dropped the ball somewhere, though I feel fairly confident my numbers are accurate.

Gamers aren't oppressed, but they absolutely deserve to be.

User Info: 360pages

1 month ago#3
I mean, if you have a 4 star, that matches a set you have with proper sub stats, it will probably be more useful than a 5 star where you either have to give up a set bonus or have a bad substat.

And like others said, only about one piece of content really needs you to be mid-max to the extreme. Just being smart with main stats will probably be enough and you can focus on grinding the perfect set when you have the free time.
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User Info: Semif2p

1 month ago#4
They sure are.

Joflyer posted...
However, the difference isn't as significant as you may think, especially when you consider how much easier it is to get favorable sub-stats on 4-star gear than 5-star gear.

That's exactly right. It's unfortunate, but it's true.

Because of that, i just kinda gave up and only really keep godly 5*s even if I'm not currently using the set. I gave up trying to bis all my 5*s. If this game had content that required current tier gear for a meaty chunk of end game content, then I'd be pretty pissed off about it actually. Instead, I've just come to the realization a lot of my characters will be wearing purples for the foreseeable future.
Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated.

User Info: Jgphoenix

1 month ago#5
They are all fodder to me except for the flowers. Because losing 1500hp is not a big deal.

User Info: Calamity316

1 month ago#6
Getting a c6 Mona probably is hard but that’s about all I’ve been able to roll besides one Ganyu I set up forever ago to be 100 percent ganyu. My mona is already c3 lol

User Info: cr14mson

1 month ago#7
I keep phys/elemental 4* cups and a few 4* c.rate/dmg circlets. The rest are fodder, including 5* if I'm rushing someone (;^_^A

User Info: AzureDrag0n1

4 weeks ago#8
I hardly max out my 5 star artifacts to level 20 anyway. So for me keeping a few 4 star with good substats is well worth it. However for me to use a 4 star goblet over a 5 star were both have elemental damage on it the substats have to be godly or it is a very rare drop like Wanderer's Troupe. I do not compromise of the Feather though. It has to be a 5 star since good substats on feathers are easy to get.

User Info: mistrfantasy

4 weeks ago#9
i think people forget:
  1. 5* start with 3 substats minimum with a chance for 4, while 4* start with 2 substats minimum with a chance for 3
  2. 20% less in stats in both sub and main stat totals @ the same level
  3. 4 less levels to gain stats(which amounts to two substat level ups lost in total as they begin with 1 less substat)

TLDR: all 4* artifacts are fodder

User Info: JD Old No7

JD Old No7
4 weeks ago#10
4 star on set crit helms are a good substitute for a 5 star one. Otherwise I don't bother much with 4 stars unless they have crit rate, crit %, and att % substats on say a flower.
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