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  3. Is Zell the worst bro in FF history?

User Info: DD Divine

DD Divine
3 weeks ago#21
Wakka was ok when people died cause they were different than him. He was just like ah well that’s what they get for having machina. The fact that he ends up with lulu is sickening. Screw Wakka.

Zell is fine.
while driving yesterday I saw a banana peel in the road and I instinctively swerved to miss it, thanks a lot Mario Kart.

User Info: serpentaurus

serpentaurus
3 weeks ago#22
Darth_Havok posted...
Wakka > Zell > Prompto > Sazh (inb4 omg you are racist because you dun like s***ty characters!)


Balthier > Locke > Sazh > Kain > Zell > Zack > Prompto > Wakka > Delita
Now playing: Overwatch, MK11, CTR:NF, DQ11

User Info: sano83

sano83
3 weeks ago#23
Why is delita so low?
Is because you think he is a bad bro, or because you think he is a bad character?
[Your hair is winter fire, January embers, My heart burns there too.]
Garrus Vakarian - "So. Who needs their ass kicked now?"

User Info: manmouse

manmouse
3 weeks ago#24
sano83 posted...
Why is delita so low?
Is because you think he is a bad bro, or because you think he is a bad character?

I was wondering that too. IMO he’s possibly the best-written character in the FF series. Vivi of course is the other candidate for that distinction as far as I’m concerned.

The layers of character development, emotional richness, and between him as well as Milluda and Wiegraf we get probably FF’s best instance of examining class politics and how people’s fates are affected (as well as how they respond to their own oppression).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b18HMqJW5A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt1-XWiMveY

User Info: sano83

sano83
3 weeks ago#25
manmouse posted...
sano83 posted...
Why is delita so low?
Is because you think he is a bad bro, or because you think he is a bad character?

I was wondering that too. IMO he’s possibly the best-written character in the FF series. Vivi of course is the other candidate for that distinction as far as I’m concerned.

The layers of character development, emotional richness, and between him as well as Milluda and Wiegraf we get probably FF’s best instance of examining class politics and how people’s fates are affected (as well as how they respond to their own oppression).

Exactly, but I understand if he thinks that Delita is a terrible Bro, because... well, Delita is a terrible Bro.
He would be a clear villian to everyone if the Templars where just dudes.
[Your hair is winter fire, January embers, My heart burns there too.]
Garrus Vakarian - "So. Who needs their ass kicked now?"

User Info: Ariax

Ariax
3 weeks ago#26
sano83 posted...
Ariax posted...
Wakka is like far too many people I see in this world. He believes that certain people (in this case, machina users, especially the Al Bhed) are bad simply because authority figures TELL him that they're bad.

Yes, but the fact that there is real world counterparts to his stupidity doesnt mean that is ok to be that stupid.


It's NOT okay. That's a point that the story is trying to make. It shows Wakka as an example of the effect that a manipulative and corrupt entity such as the Temple of Yevon and its attendant brainwashing has on people. Such people are also not necessarily stupid, as I have seen some very intelligent people fall for such lies. Institutions like Yevon have had centuries of experience in conning and manipulating people, and in having that have become very good at it.

On another note, Delita is a tragic character. He was so obsessed with bringing down the nobility that he became the very thing that he claimed to hate.

User Info: manmouse

manmouse
3 weeks ago#27
Ariax posted...


It's NOT okay. That's a point that the story is trying to make. It shows Wakka as an example of the effect that a manipulative and corrupt entity such as the Temple of Yevon and its attendant brainwashing has on people. Such people are also not necessarily stupid, as I have seen some very intelligent people fall for such lies. Institutions like Yevon have had centuries of experience in conning and manipulating people, and in having that have become very good at it.


Yeah, also worth noting that oftentimes fairly unintelligent or undereducated people can actually still have a healthy resistance to such manipulation. Brainwashing and cultish behavior are less about whether or not someone has a strong intellect, and more about other vulnerabilities within a person’s life. Whether it be their search for meaning in life, voids where certain types of companionship should be, susceptibility to abusive treatment (due to conditioning as a child), manipulating long-standing trusts in certain power structures, and plenty more.

Kinda like the epidemic of reactionary outlooks within the baby boomer generation in the past few years.

Many of these people hadn’t spent much of their lives with much animosity towards immigrants. Many of them may have had years of their lives when they were well aware of the police’s ability to abuse their authority. Many were made aware during the Vietnam War that the US’s wars are often not only futile but even end with us being morally wrong. Many of them came to understand that the Cold War was fueled by a false dichotomy of Capitalist Freedom vs Leftist OPPRESSIONZ, despite our own FBI literally collaborating with the KKK and racist militia groups to brutalize, assassinate, spy on, and imprison anyone involved in anti-war, feminist, black civil rights, animal rights, communist, and other movements (literally, look up “COINTELPRO”, it ain’t no conspiracy theory). Hell, JFK tapped MLK’s phones because he had the nerve to say that black people should have rights.

But even with all this coming to light during their lifetimes, something important happened. The idealized prosperity and safety and stability that was PROMISED to them became threatened.
Of course, this threat came from the exact same power structures that were revealing themselves to be corrupt and bent on enriching themselves at the expense of everyone beneath themselves throughout the entire 20th century just with even MORE leeway and power granted to themselves now due to the enhanced wealth concentration and rollback of protections and regulations since the rise of Neoliberal capitalist methodology of the last 40 years.

But even after all of this...
After all this evidence piles up, of exactly who threatens the way of life for regular working people like damn vampires...
...after all that, the fact that their sense of reality was finally shattered and all the promises were broken by the SAME PEOPLE who had been twisting the knife since the end of WWII, left them with a distinct weakness and vulnerability.

And with that void sitting open, despite all the education and knowledge revealed to them over the past century, all it took was those same vampires to tell them that the poorest people, immigrants, outsiders, foreign religions, immoral youths, and “cultural marxists” (Nazi Germany code for “Jews”) are the greatest threat to our world. And boom, it works on millions of otherwise intelligent, decent, mature people. And now you have an army of people newly radicalized with new hatreds and fears.

That generation isn’t dumb, they were wide awake and listening during all the turbulence of the 20th century. But the manipulation from those on top comes for a weakness and wound opened by the very same people on top. It’s not rational, but it just... happens anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b18HMqJW5A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt1-XWiMveY

User Info: TerraSeeker

TerraSeeker
3 weeks ago#28
I always feel bad for Zell. People should treat him better.
Let's mosey

User Info: sano83

sano83
3 weeks ago#29
TerraSeeker posted...
I always feel bad for Zell. People should treat him better.

In the boards or in the game?
[Your hair is winter fire, January embers, My heart burns there too.]
Garrus Vakarian - "So. Who needs their ass kicked now?"

User Info: DanielsonsXe

DanielsonsXe
3 weeks ago#30
Delita > Balthier > Prompto > Locke > Sazh > Zack > Wakka > Zell > Kain

Delita's a great bro, just noto to Tietra.
Balthier's awesome.
Prompto was legitimately one of my favorite parts of the game.
Everyone else ranged from 'meh' to 'f*** you, shut up.'
PSN: NinjaLeonhart
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