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  3. Ifrit, Shiva, Selphie and Edea are censored?

User Info: Kaliesto

Kaliesto
1 week ago#311
Algur_the_Evil posted...
No. You can’t flip it around. You have the burden of proof.


But my question for you was that aren't people allowed to be skeptical of the official answer? Burden of proof aside concerning me and a few others here.

Despite the proof I was shown that I just don't believe it is really their absolute truth because I have observed this company and what they have done over the years, and surprisingly they haven't changed much since the 90s back when they were Square-Soft. Some of that old attitude is still around in their offices. I should remind if they really changed their ways they should have uncensored the rest of FFVIII from Ultimecia's Castle (with the blood in one particular room), and a certain boss but they chose not to do that but instead doubled down with Siren in my views.

Gimme dat, gimme dat, gimme dat DramaFAQs-misterbum
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: Kaliesto

Kaliesto
1 week ago#312
Voxwik posted...
I finally got back to this after confirming, but Ifrit does not appear to be censored:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/777356408545224848/5BEB661AA5D7C23E89399C8BDA6F1530DDF4380A/

I'm surprised some seemed to not realize he is nude with only fluff covering him up.

In any case, I oppose all censorship. It's very most often conservatives pushing to remove any nudity and especially any sexuality from things, however it's no better when people on the left do it too. It's just funny that people are so brainwashed by GamerGate and the like they aren't even aware of that. It was a theocratic control freak group that prompted Valve to give the middle finger and reduce its restrictions on Steam content. More companies need to do the same.

That this is about nudity or even if it were sexuality does NOT diminish the right of people to feel disgust over changes.

The days of people acting as if sexuality is immature should be over. People with the copy/paste "horny nerds" argument need to drop that too. If it isn't obvious from the earlier part of my post, I'm not conservative. I just don't believe in censorship, and a silly argument of semantics over the "true" definition of the word doesn't change what people are talking about.

There is clearly a double standard too. To be completely honest, and I am not at all ashamed to say it, Ifrit in FFVIII was one of the first times I was totally sure that I most definitely am not straight. He has a very attractive model, and I don't think there's anything shameful in admitting I feel that way. Likewise, if straight/bi/lesbian/whatever people find Siren etc. attractive there is no shame in that. It's not gratuitous in the original. This garbage needs to stop, no matter which control freak group they are afraid of offending.

We need ranked choice voting in the USA, so the control freaks can lose without people fearing they are throwing their vote away if they vote third party. Enabling and coddling control freaks should have ended with the 1990s and early 2000s, when attempts to make the USA a de facto Christian theocracy failed. Left, right, I don't care. I don't respect control freak views and I don't respect prudish, immature in my opinion, rejection of sexuality as something normal.


Agreed, these insults I'm reading on here are getting old and worn out (have been for years), it hurts the conversation.
Gimme dat, gimme dat, gimme dat DramaFAQs-misterbum
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: Kaliesto

Kaliesto
1 week ago#313
For anyone who doubts SE's past history:

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Censorship

The point is whenever it comes to the female form, content, and even language (during localization) that they go out of their way to change something around so they wouldn't get controversy.

And if you ask me? I think SE has a immature view on Females and not the fans if someone at their office was that offended by Siren.

Also you can't control some fans who want to make X Character their Waifu or husbando whatever, that is not a fair argument to be making and that is more of a recent internet culture nonsense that really should be thrown into the dead meme pile.
Gimme dat, gimme dat, gimme dat DramaFAQs-misterbum
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: Voxwik

Voxwik
6 days ago#314
It isn't so much that these minor changes annoy me grievously as I don't like seeing control freaks given an inch.

tonberrymasta posted...
Optimist, he wasn't talking about anybody on here, he was talking about his position on censorship in general.

That is correct. It was in particular inspired by the post claiming "conservatives" are the ones complaining here, when I grew up with conservatives effectively pushing for de facto theocracy (or turning a blind eye to said efforts).

Perhaps I didn't strongly enough condemn the views of left-wing control freaks. I don't think they are nearly as numerous, but that is irrelevant to my point.
Kaliesto posted...
For anyone who doubts SE's past history:

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Censorship

The point is whenever it comes to the female form, content, and even language (during localization) that they go out of their way to change something around so they wouldn't get controversy.

And if you ask me? I think SE has a immature view on Females and not the fans if someone at their office was that offended by Siren.

Also you can't control some fans who want to make X Character their Waifu or husbando whatever, that is not a fair argument to be making and that is more of a recent internet culture nonsense that really should be thrown into the dead meme pile.

I've skimmed your link. I don't think it supports your position as much as you seem to think. Need a I remind you that there is a stark difference between censorship for political reasons (Charlie Hebdo) and willingly changing some aspects of your game design because you are trying to cater to your audience.
MSA. CPA.
AUD - 80, BEC - 83, FAR - 77, REG - 75
To expand off my last post, that person tried suggesting the country tried to force a Christian theocracy in the 90s and 2000s... I was born in the late 70s, never became a Christian until I was 28, and nobody forced me. My entire life, religion had been what it's always been, you either follow it or you don't, and believers would gather in their churches/temples and partake in a fellowship of like-minded belief.

Before I became Christian, sure there were a handful or two of people that would thump their bibles at me, or even at times try to shove their preaching in my face, and yes it was obnoxious as ****, but that's a tiny minute fraction of that whole community. And nobody put a gun to my head and forced me to make the decision to become Christian, it was my FREEDOM to make that choice.

What I *do* recall from that time-period (and a large amount of it was before I was Christian, I noticed it and was shocked even while non-religious) was atheism making a full assault on religion. They suddenly tried to abolish the Commandments from courthouses, wanted to yank down any display seen as religious, even wanted to ban Christmas and the ability to say Merry Christmas (a centuries old tradition celebrated even by non-Christians). Then ironically after chasing out a lot of religion, they then wanted atheism to be recognized as a religion (when it even means the belief in no religion) to benefit in the religious protections that they worked to strip from so many other instances, even so far as getting statues of satan placed outside of courthouses. -_-
No dream is too big, no challenge too great, nothing we want for our future is beyond our reach. When somebody challenges you, fight back; be brutal, be tough.
(edited 6 days ago)

User Info: Kaliesto

Kaliesto
6 days ago#317
Algur_the_Evil posted...
I've skimmed your link. I don't think it supports your position as much as you seem to think. Need a I remind you that there is a stark difference between censorship for political reasons (Charlie Hebdo) and willingly changing some aspects of your game design because you are trying to cater to your audience.


I don't know what else to tell you, the wiki puts it on full display that SE makes no apologies for censoring something.

and no they're not catering, they just don't want to offend their audience (or so it seems). Take a look at Shiva that was changed in FFXV when it was brought over to China, that is not catering that is simply changed because in their culture her look was considered offending and likely the chinese government wouldn't have approved of it.

Culture has a funny way of not wanting to understand eachother, and may I also point out that most games would get heavily censored in the Middle East (which is why is not a big market over there).
Gimme dat, gimme dat, gimme dat DramaFAQs-misterbum
(edited 6 days ago)

User Info: Kaliesto

Kaliesto
6 days ago#318
To conclude what they did was self-censoring themselves because X reasons (which they're doing a disservice to themselves for doing that just for maximum profit), and all because they were too afraid to express their original design because of potential backlash. Also you by telling me you simply skimmed my link tells me you're not really being serious about this conversation, it doesn't take much to research this at all.

I don't respect designers that want to do that to themselves.
Gimme dat, gimme dat, gimme dat DramaFAQs-misterbum
(edited 6 days ago)

User Info: Kaliesto

Kaliesto
6 days ago#319
Also you need to understand the context of why each item was likely censored, and especially their stuff from the 90s.

Religious iconography at the time was heavily censored from Final Fantasy and other franchises, this is common knowledge.
Blood was most often censored as well in many franchises.
Localization was sometimes censored and you can compare that easily between the Japanese and American scripts.
Showing skin even back then was censored, and this was due to the fact they didn't want their games to go beyond a T-rating despite the fact the designs were not really bad, the attitude back then was really different on this.

They wouldn't have been able to even bring these games to the American Market unless they were told to make those changes.

Years later that old attitude still affects Square Enix, and surprisngly Nintendo has done the reverse lately.

And you're telling me that link doesn't support anything, I have a question for you then..how much do you know about the video game industry from back then till now? I really hope you're not trolling me because the fact you're still defending this company despite the link, and knowing how the video game industry was in the 90s is baffling to me.

There is a reason why some of us in this thread are against you on this because we know what happened back then, and we don't want to see a return of that in our current time.
Gimme dat, gimme dat, gimme dat DramaFAQs-misterbum
(edited 6 days ago)

User Info: LordSeymour77

LordSeymour77
6 days ago#320
Kaliesto posted...
And you're telling me that link doesn't support anything, I have a question for you then..how much do you know about the video game industry from back then till now? I really hope you're not trolling me because the fact you're still defending this company despite the link, and knowing how the video game industry was in the 90s is baffling to me.

It's called gaslighting, dearie.
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