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User Info: YHWH_Saves

YHWH_Saves
1 month ago#41
OzymandiasIV posted...
YHWH_Saves posted...
While I agree with this general sentiment, Christians hold a unique perspective.

I believe that by putting God first, it is best for the people in my life. The best way to describe this phenomenon is: "The one who loses his life for my sake will find it."

I had to go off into "La La Land" as the first weirdo in the family, by following God and dedicating my speech/life to Him. And that involved putting the invisible above the tangible. Turns out what Jesus claimed is true.

After a season, others joined in, and we're no longer a family of chronic depression and anxiety.


Cool, but... What an odd way to phrase that. I left religion and have been so much happier and fulfilled over the last 13 years than I ever was during the first 18

What about "religion" did you leave that made for a happier, more rewarding life experience?
"Man will not live off of bread alone, but by every word proceeding through the mouth of God." "You are not able to serve God and wealth.".
YHWH_Saves posted...
OzymandiasIV posted...
YHWH_Saves posted...
While I agree with this general sentiment, Christians hold a unique perspective.

I believe that by putting God first, it is best for the people in my life. The best way to describe this phenomenon is: "The one who loses his life for my sake will find it."

I had to go off into "La La Land" as the first weirdo in the family, by following God and dedicating my speech/life to Him. And that involved putting the invisible above the tangible. Turns out what Jesus claimed is true.

After a season, others joined in, and we're no longer a family of chronic depression and anxiety.


Cool, but... What an odd way to phrase that. I left religion and have been so much happier and fulfilled over the last 13 years than I ever was during the first 18

What about "religion" did you leave that made for a happier, more rewarding life experience?


Leaving a religion and feeling happier and more rewarding after doing that is only temporary, also.
I might just 6-0 you in Pokemon. Watch out for my awesome teams.

User Info: OzymandiasIV

OzymandiasIV
1 month ago#43
YHWH_Saves posted...
What about "religion" did you leave that made for a happier, more rewarding life experience?


Why are you asking? If you're just curious, that's one thing, but if you're looking to hold an argument or persuasive discussion, I'm not interested. I've had many over the years from countless people.

PokemonExpert44 posted...
Leaving a religion and feeling happier and more rewarding after doing that is only temporary, also.


Eh. It's been 13 years and I feel fantastic. I've never even felt a pull toward religion through all the personal tragedies I've been through since converting (brother and grandma dying a year apart, wife cheating on and then divorcing me, an uncle dying in the last few years, etc.).
Sucking at something is the first step to becoming sort of good at something.
(edited 1 month ago)
OzymandiasIV posted...
YHWH_Saves posted...
What about "religion" did you leave that made for a happier, more rewarding life experience?


Why are you asking? If you're just curious, that's one thing, but if you're looking to hold an argument or persuasive discussion, I'm not interested. I've had many over the years from countless people.

PokemonExpert44 posted...
Leaving a religion and feeling happier and more rewarding after doing that is only temporary, also.


Eh. It's been 13 years and I feel fantastic. I've never even felt a pull toward religion through all the personal tragedies I've been through since converting (brother and grandma dying a year apart, wife cheating on and then divorcing me, an uncle dying in the last few years, etc.).


You're weak, bro. Weak.
I might just 6-0 you in Pokemon. Watch out for my awesome teams.

User Info: YHWH_Saves

YHWH_Saves
1 month ago#45
OzymandiasIV posted...
Why are you asking? If you're just curious, that's one thing, but if you're looking to hold an argument or persuasive discussion, I'm not interested. I've had many over the years from countless people.

I'm asking, not because I want to then follow up and argue why you should come back to the "true" faith, but am curious what about the Gospel you found unpalatable in your life.

I know that many are leaving the church. I myself have left my church, and many others before it. I am genuinely curious if people are leaving God, or the church.

And if they're claiming to be leaving God (or belief in God), I'm curious what kind of God they're leaving/don't believe in.
"Man will not live off of bread alone, but by every word proceeding through the mouth of God." "You are not able to serve God and wealth.".

User Info: OzymandiasIV

OzymandiasIV
1 month ago#46
YHWH_Saves posted...
I'm asking, not because I want to then follow up and argue why you should come back to the "true" faith


Good. I'm going to hold you to that.

YHWH_Saves posted...
I am genuinely curious if people are leaving God, or the church.


Some people are leaving the church, some people are leaving God. I'm leaving God.

YHWH_Saves posted...
And if they're claiming to be leaving God (or belief in God), I'm curious what kind of God they're leaving/don't believe in.


My answer to this question will more or less answer your earlier question, only without going into what I didn't like about the Gospel (as going into that would be unnecessary, though I will mention that I don't disagree with everything the Bible teaches).

I, quite simply, don't believe in a God who would give us (or rather allow the concept of) original sin, and who would require a sacrifice (of himself, no less) for us to be forgiven to get into the place he barred us from entering with original sin to begin with. It's full of what I consider to be many unnecessary steps, and is limiting to something that is supposed to be limitless (a limitless God would be able to forgive any and all of us without the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. This is perhaps the most central tenet of Christianity and it makes no logical sense to me (and I'm not going to believe it with blind faith, either)).

I also simply never felt any kind of connection to God or Jesus. I always felt uncomfortable praying, or talking about having Jesus in my heart or having a personal relationship with him, etc., because it never felt real, no matter how hard I tried.

And I didn't leave religion because of a fear of hell, but leaving religion and having that fear removed (though the fear still lingers sometimes) has been a huge relief. I don't use that as an excuse to do things I consider evil, but I also no longer fear doing or enjoying things that I simply don't view as bad or evil. (It's a general conception that atheists have no moral guidance, or can't possibly have one, or that it changes on a whim to suit their desires, but I have moral principles, and while they can evolve, they evolve genuinely, and not to suit some purpose or allow me to do something I think is bad without feeling guilt.)

I also don't believe in hell. I don't believe God (as described by religion, so far as religion wants to describe God without getting into "mysterious ways) could love us all unconditionally and send any of us to hell for any length of time, especially his followers.

Nor do I believe that it makes any sense at all for God to give someone the faculties they have to genuinely research, reflect, etc., and conclude that God doesn't or likely doesn't exist, and then send them to hell for it. I couldn't imagine anything more egotistical.

I hope you keep your word and don't try to turn this into some kind of argument. If you do, do so with the knowledge that I won't read it or respond to it.
Sucking at something is the first step to becoming sort of good at something.
(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: YHWH_Saves

YHWH_Saves
1 month ago#47
This is a response, but is not an argument. In fact, I'm open to admit that I share some of these doubts. If you don't want to read it, I obviously can't force you, but if you're interested (even slightly) in hearing another side, then read on.

OzymandiasIV posted...
perhaps the most central tenet of Christianity

I was surprised to find that this actually isn't true. Most of the Eastern Orthodoxy doesn't accept PSA (penal substitutionary atonement), and many Christians don't believe in the basic premise that God saves us from Himself by killing Himself.

Not argumentative, just an observation.OzymandiasIV posted...
I always felt uncomfortable praying,

Prayer can and does feel artificial at times, I'll admit. I have so many stories where I tried to reach out to God, and felt nothing, and yet, it was soon thereafter that I believe God reached out to me. That's an impossible thing to convey via text, but again, just a shared experienced.

OzymandiasIV posted...
I also don't believe in hell.

Again, lots of Christians do not believe in "hell," as it is traditionally portrayed/known in the West. In fact, you might be surprised that "hell" was borrowed from pagan converts, and developed into something potentially foreign to the church in the Middle Ages. Are there bad consequences of doing evil? Yes. Does God have a torture chamber waiting for people who fail, morally? I don't think so.
"Man will not live off of bread alone, but by every word proceeding through the mouth of God." "You are not able to serve God and wealth.".

User Info: DaveTheUseless

DaveTheUseless
3 weeks ago#48
I remember having PSA drilled into my head, from the legalistic Calvinist perspective. That church (not necessarily for that reason--it's a long story) ruined my life for a couple-to-few years. When you go to a wholesome church, sermons are often inspiring and/or challenging. The one I used to go to, they drill their theological ideas straight into your cranium and don't back down if you flinch in the mad doctor's seat.

The Heaven/Hell thing, I've heard pastors preach a ton about how we're actually going to the New Earth. Perspectives on what 'Hell' is about have been all over the map in my experience--I could probably write a book on it.
www.youtube.com/davetheuseless Creepypasta Channel.
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