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  3. Why be accepting or tolerant of other religions?

User Info: YHWH_Saves

YHWH_Saves
1 month ago#61
darklao posted...
Christians: No evolution in the classroom! Teach the controversy! Take down Roe v. Wade at all costs! Ban muslims! No trans people in our bathrooms! *makes laws furiously*


Christian laws...Schmistian laws.

Any law that does good for people is a good law, and is welcome. Let's see if I can be succinct...

Teaching evolution is bad. Abortion is bad. Muslims are good (I don't want to ban anyone). Shared bathrooms are bad.

But considering that some think I'm wrong, here are easy, "tolerant" solutions for each:

- Teach Creationism alongside evolution, if one must be taught at all in public schools
- Take preventive measures to rid our young people of sexual immorality (kill Hollywood, porn, etc.). Don't correlate liberty/rights/freedom/good with child murder, but offer it as a last resort (if at all)
- Stop being xenophobic/racist
- If any accommodations must be made, then make new bathrooms; don't force people into bathrooms/lockerooms with opposite sex people

Easy peasy.
"Man will not live off of bread alone, but by every word proceeding through the mouth of God." "You are not able to serve God and wealth.".
(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: kozlo100

kozlo100
1 month ago#62
YHWH_Saves posted...
Easy peasy.


See, you say that...

Teaching Creationism in public schools isn't as easy as all that. It's an inherently religious concept and the constitution says we can't do that. It's the same part of the constitution that protects religious liberty in the first place, so that's really tricky. There are ways it could maybe be made to work, but it would be pretty cumbersome.

I'm actually not sure there is a middle ground solution to abortion at all. The differences in beliefs there are axiomatic.

To stop being racist and xenophobic is obviously a great idea. We should do that. Again, I don't know how easy it is though. It's not as if we haven't tried.

I don't see a lot of call for shared bathrooms lately, but it might just be because that's a low priority issue for me. Making new bathrooms might be a conceptually easy solution, depending on what part of the issue you're trying to solve, but it would be logistically difficult.
Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.
kozlo100 posted...
YHWH_Saves posted...
Easy peasy.


See, you say that...

Teaching Creationism in public schools isn't as easy as all that. It's an inherently religious concept and the constitution says we can't do that. It's the same part of the constitution that protects religious liberty in the first place, so that's really tricky. There are ways it could maybe be made to work, but it would be pretty cumbersome.

I'm actually not sure there is a middle ground solution to abortion at all. The differences in beliefs there are axiomatic.

To stop being racist and xenophobic is obviously a great idea. We should do that. Again, I don't know how easy it is though. It's not as if we haven't tried.

I don't see a lot of call for shared bathrooms lately, but it might just be because that's a low priority issue for me. Making new bathrooms might be a conceptually easy solution, depending on what part of the issue you're trying to solve, but it would be logistically difficult.


Creationism isn't religious.
I might just 6-0 you in Pokemon. Watch out for my awesome teams.

User Info: zinformant

zinformant
1 month ago#64
YHWH_Saves posted...
- Teach Creationism alongside evolution, if one must be taught at all in public schools

Yet, Genesis 1 provides no commentary on subjects that evolution illuminates. For example, what if I want to understand island biogeography? Antibiotic resistance? Coal deposits? Three-chambered hearts? Avian plumage? Equating these as in the same class of knowledge is dangerous, as they answer very different questions. Nevermind the fact that there are so many different creation narratives such that curricula would not even be able to treat the Genesis one respectfully out of deference for other belief systems...
Is it naive to dream of a world without war?

User Info: YHWH_Saves

YHWH_Saves
1 month ago#65
zinformant posted...
YHWH_Saves posted...
- Teach Creationism alongside evolution, if one must be taught at all in public schools

Yet, Genesis 1 provides no commentary on subjects that evolution illuminates. For example, what if I want to understand island biogeography? Antibiotic resistance? Coal deposits? Three-chambered hearts? Avian plumage? Equating these as in the same class of knowledge is dangerous, as they answer very different questions. Nevermind the fact that there are so many different creation narratives such that curricula would not even be able to treat the Genesis one respectfully out of deference for other belief systems...

As you say, Creationism answers a different question - "why?" In that regard, many of us would argue that answering the "why?" question is far more important, or at the very least, should accompany, an answer to the "how?" question.

As for which creation narrative to teach, apply the same criteria you do when attacking them (not you as in you). The Enuma Elish isn't the hot topic of evolutionary debate; neither is Gaia or the titans. I think it's obvious why I'm positing that we teach the Judeo-Christian creation story.
"Man will not live off of bread alone, but by every word proceeding through the mouth of God." "You are not able to serve God and wealth.".

User Info: zinformant

zinformant
1 month ago#66
But, we don't ask 'Why?' in other disciplines, at least not often. For example, we could theoretically pepper a world history survey course with reflections on why the course of history has veered in the ways that it does from various viewpoints (including but not limited to through the lens of the Gospel). Would such reflections accomplish anything aside from the already-noted illegal proselytization slant? If anything, I would predict that this would pose challenging questions to students who are already struggling with the 'What?' and 'How?' dimensions.

I propose a different solution. We maintain whatever rigor we have in the public school system and encourage religious sects to evaluate their own internal education systems. For example, consider the conspiracy theorist from Youtube that we looked at the other day. He's a very devout (and zealous) man with paper-thin Biblical knowledge. He may have committed select excerpts from the King James to memory, but, once one recognizes the historical context within which the KJV was produced, we understand why scholars do not adhere to a 'KJV-only' approach. This is an argument in favor of not only tolerance but listening. Folks who crawl too deeply into whatever hole they were thrown into don't realize just how big the overall honeycomb is.

Regarding what to teach, it's not that easy. One could theoretically diversify learning in the physical sciences by adding, say, Wiccan beliefs for an alternate perspective. What about teaching the Chakras in psychology or human anatomy and physiology? The ultimate answer as to why we don't teach allegedly competing ideas is because they're not part of the same body of knowledge. We don't teach Genesis in the life sciences or geology because the Genesis narrative does not emerge from empirical research in the natural or living world. Likewise, we don't teach tenets of the sciences in theology because they don't emerge from Biblical study.
Is it naive to dream of a world without war?

User Info: YHWH_Saves

YHWH_Saves
4 weeks ago#67
zinformant posted...
I propose a different solution. We maintain whatever rigor we have in the public school system and encourage religious sects to evaluate their own internal education systems.

Let's meet in the middle.

Let's be more nuanced in our teaching of evolution (I'll keep this vague, b/c I don't care to make this a debate about evolution), and make a concerted effort to make "Sunday school" a permanent, more rigorous and mandatory part of religious faith. I am 100% down for this.

In my view, we need to teach churchgoers:

1) Church history
2) Theology
3) Greek (possibly)
4) Application of Kingdom principles in everyday life

It has never made sense to me why these are things that only those who attend seminary acquire. This is a part of our religious heritage and culture that must be contended for; why anyone would be satisfied with a surface faith is beyond me.

But yeah, I know these things are beyond reality (although easy enough to apply), and was being a bit facetious.
"Man will not live off of bread alone, but by every word proceeding through the mouth of God." "You are not able to serve God and wealth.".
(edited 4 weeks ago)

User Info: YHWH_Saves

YHWH_Saves
4 weeks ago#68
A brief, general point about the "why?" question. I do not think we can compel others to consider the "eternal" weight of their actions, and don't have a real solution.

But I think that to live without addressing the "why?" question is death - it makes no sense, and leads to depression, absence of purpose, etc.

===============

I don't know. When I go onto this tangent, I feel as though I am surrounded by disappointment. I want to be able to blame the lack of faith on secular overlords and their evolution, but I can't. I have to blame the church, too. Superficial faith has gone a long way to dissuade others from ever entering into what I believe to be a fulfilling, lifelong pursuit of following Jesus.

/rant
"Man will not live off of bread alone, but by every word proceeding through the mouth of God." "You are not able to serve God and wealth.".

User Info: SSj4Wingzero

SSj4Wingzero
4 weeks ago#69
darklao posted...
but it never should've even been a lawsuit in the first place.

Christians: No evolution in the classroom! Teach the controversy! Take down Roe v. Wade at all costs! Ban muslims! No trans people in our bathrooms! *makes laws furiously*

Also Christians: That you'd even think of using the legal system to assert yourselves against us in the matter of this t-shaped wreckage shows you hate us and are waging a war against us. Where is your so-called tolerance now?


That's just it though. Both sides have gotten absolutely ridiculous. Extremist Christians believe that any that separation of church and state infringes upon their "rights", and extremist atheists think that they're entitled to live lives entirely free of any simple mention of religion. Which is the point I've been trying to make. We've gotten way past, "Do your own thing and just respect me if we don't agree", and it's pretty sad.
Not changing this sig until the Knicks win the NBA Championship! Started...4/23/2011? Or was it 2010?
#70
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