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  3. It's painful debating with other atheists. A lot of their arguments are bad.

User Info: spacefuneral

spacefuneral
4 weeks ago#21
iwasapoetonce posted...
spacefuneral posted...
I think part of the problem most atheists run into (out of inexperience if nothing else) is assuming that religious folks were persuaded that their god(s) of choice exist out of logical arguments. That's not how faith works and never has been. As a former atheist I can f***ing guarantee you I have no logical or provable reason to believe they way I do. And yet, I can feel the gods walk beside me.


What do you believe in?

I guess I'd call myself a pagan, but that's kinda misleading. When people hear that they hear Hellenic Paganism, Norse Paganism, etc. Raising old gods back from the grave. I've been finding new ones, you could say. My patron is more of a future cowboy than anything else. The modern collective unconscious breeds modern gods, not the gods of triremes and longships.

LinkFanatic posted...
spacefuneral posted...
I think part of the problem most atheists run into (out of inexperience if nothing else) is assuming that religious folks were persuaded that their god(s) of choice exist out of logical arguments.


Sadly, it's not just the inexperienced ones that do this. Have you watched Atheist Experience?

I think you missed my meaning. You can't describe religion, only experience it. It's like color and the blind. I haven't watched AE, though, and I'm still curious where you're going with this.
Philip threw up on himself.
Criminal walked away in disgust.

User Info: LinkFanatic

LinkFanatic
4 weeks ago#22
spacefuneral posted...
I'm still curious where you're going with this.


You said atheists assume that people believe in god for logical reasons because they're inexperienced; I'm saying that's false. Plenty of atheists assume that; doesn't matter if they're experienced or not.
Islam is Chaos Control.

User Info: spacefuneral

spacefuneral
4 weeks ago#23
LinkFanatic posted...
spacefuneral posted...
I'm still curious where you're going with this.


You said atheists assume that people believe in god for logical reasons because they're inexperienced; I'm saying that's false. Plenty of atheists assume that; doesn't matter if they're experienced or not.

Oh, okay. Guess it was I who misunderstood.
Philip threw up on himself.
Criminal walked away in disgust.
#24
(message deleted)

User Info: Anti-245

Anti-245
4 weeks ago#25
Most of these militant atheists have their own religion. It doesn’t take long to find out what these people who claim not to believe in the boogeyman and scream it out loud(as Marx would say) believe.
Life in the DoB.

User Info: YHWH_Saves

YHWH_Saves
4 weeks ago#26
@LinkFanatic

How much, if any, of your position is the result of bad religion?

I often tell others that if I had to base my Christianity on the musings of "Christians," I'd be hard out. The biggest hurdle to me adopting the label "Christian" was knowing that I'd immediately be seen to be one-and-the-same as my Christian friends, who are often very materialistic, nasty people.

Part of the appeal to my faith is the ability to use God's own words against the church.
"Man will not live off of bread alone, but by every word proceeding through the mouth of God." "You are not able to serve God and wealth.".

User Info: spacefuneral

spacefuneral
4 weeks ago#27
Anti-245 posted...
Most of these militant atheists have their own religion. It doesn’t take long to find out what these people who claim not to believe in the boogeyman and scream it out loud(as Marx would say) believe.

Interestingly enough, I've seen aspects of Leftist politics being compared with religion by folks on the Left. The Revolution is little different from the Rapture, and the cults of personality that form around leftist theorists and politicians can be downright strange. As much as I love and adore the Rojava revolution, their worshipful attitude towards Ocalan is kinda weird, though I suppose no weirder than Americans with George Washington.
Philip threw up on himself.
Criminal walked away in disgust.

User Info: LinkFanatic

LinkFanatic
4 weeks ago#28
YHWH_Saves posted...
How much, if any, of your position is the result of bad religion?


A lot originally...not so much now. By the time I realized that Christians as a whole aren't arrogant and conceited, it was already too late for me to change since you can't exactly switch beliefs like that.
Islam is Chaos Control.

User Info: kozlo100

kozlo100
4 weeks ago#29
LinkFanatic posted...
A lot originally...not so much now.


I'm kind of the same way. It's a lot of the 'bad religion' sort of thing that started me on the path to atheism, but anymore the actual theology, good or bad, has very little to do with my stance. Nor does the general demeanor of any particular faith's adherents for that matter.
Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.

User Info: Fishels

Fishels
4 weeks ago#30
SSj4Wingzero posted...
OzymandiasIV posted...
Theists and atheists alike need to agree that s*** won't ever be proven and we should stop trying to prove or disprove one another.


That's reasonable to expect from an atheist, but it's not particularly realistic or fair to expect that a theist do the same thing if they're genuine and earnest in their faith. Because atheism is a non-belief, all it *really* teaches is that everyone's dying anyway, so spreading atheism doesn't really enrich the lives of people to much of an extent. If you get Christians to stop going to church, you've accomplished nothing other than they stop going to church, but they're still going to die and cease to exist the same way they were before they stopped attending church. In fact, they'll probably die sooner, since studies generally show that religiously active people live longer and happier lives.

But if a believer gets an atheist to change his perspective, then in the believer's mind, the atheist is saved from condemnation. The believer is convinced that he has brought eternal life (or whatever other religions teach) to the life of the atheist. As such, it's not really reasonable to expect that a believer just "give up" trying to help people. If the believer does so, then in his mind he's willingly throwing the life of another person to chance and letting them risk going to hell.

In the believer's mind, if he convinces an atheist to change his ways, he's saved the person's soul.

In the atheist's mind, if he convinces a believer to change his ways, that person is...still just a person. His fate hasn't changed, because his religion was fake. So if he kept believing, he'd have died and ceased to exist. If he stops, he still dies and ceases to exist. That's why atheist "evangelism" isn't really a thing and always has to focus on the terrible things religion does, because on a personal level, atheism has nothing to offer because it's a disbelief.


The first bold could apply to Christians affecting politics. Since their personal beliefs do factor in. And also we could bring in Islam. I don't go around trying to deconvert people from Islam but my hot take is that the middle east would be a better place if they were atheist.

2. What if a christian gets to heaven to find out another religion is correct? The christian and the atheist could be coming back as a rat if the Hindu's best us.
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