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  3. I'm not sure I could ever believe in the supernatural or god.

User Info: LinkFanatic

LinkFanatic
1 month ago#1
Just because an event is allegedly deemed supernatural or divine doesn't mean it is; that's a fallacy. Not to mention, who's to say it won't be explained later?

Any of you guys feel like this? And for anyone else, feel free to poke holes in my claims here if you want. I'm game; I'll even change my mind without a second thought. No foolin'. :)
Islam is Chaos Control.

User Info: OrangeWizard

OrangeWizard
1 month ago#2
You shouldn't believe anything that has only been alleged to happen without a sufficient reason. God is no different

User Info: darklao

darklao
1 month ago#3
I could, but I'd have to have something I personally experienced that couldn't be explained by other means.

My whole life I was pretty open to the idea of ghosts/spirits, but despite looking into magic and ouija and tarot and all kind of kooky stuff, literally nothing happened. Grave warnings about this stuff went hand in hand with my religious education, so in a way it was a way to test their level of reliability.

But yeah, no, nothing.

I have had some special religious experiences but they're honestly indistinguishable from normal human brain stuff, so. Sometimes I consider them personal evidence, sometimes I consider them the desperate epiphanies of a diseased mind.

I did say a while back that if God made Trump create universal single payer health care before his time in office ended, I would consider that strong evidence of his existence. I should find that post.

Here we go:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/263-religion/76461411#30

Conversion to Christianty still possible.

User Info: TurtleInFreedom

TurtleInFreedom
1 month ago#4
This isn't a case for Christianity, but ask yourself this: why does substance exist at all rather than not existing? I don't think events are that important because they could point to a possibility within a probability, but why does that chance even exist at all? It's a more metaphysical, philosophical understanding of the world and its cause and direction is what sparks our curiosity about a 'god'. I'm not asking the scientific answer of why there exists anything at all, but a questioning in a way only a human could ask; why is there such a series of events at all whatsoever?

User Info: kozlo100

kozlo100
1 month ago#5
I think this gets into a little bit of a semantic game with the word 'natural'. I have seen the same sort of thing with the word 'universe', and that one's a little easier to see what's happening, I think.

These days, scientists will talk about things like multiple universes, or 'the bulk' as an external space in which our universe resides. This sort of thing is patently ridiculous by the strict definition of the term 'universe', which is 'all things as one'. There obviously can't be multiples of 'all things', and 'all things' can't have anything external to it.

And yet we get by because we've come to understand 'universe' not to mean all of absolutely everything, but just everything in the spacetime in which we find ourselves. By that definition there can be multiples and things external to it and so forth.

So I think the same thing happens with the supernatural. If we define 'nature' in a similar way to the original definition of 'universe', then obviously the supernatural is an absurdity. If a thing exists, then it's part of the natural world. But if we understand 'nature' as the realm of existence which we inhabit, then there's room for the supernatural, even when elements of the supernatural eventually get explanations or become better understood. I think that latter understanding is the one most religious folks labor under, and in that vein I could accept a supernatural god, if given enough reason to do so.
Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.

User Info: YHWH_Saves

YHWH_Saves
1 month ago#6
You know what's helpful (for me) when I have "doubts?" I walk outside, breaking away from the heady sorts of arguments over existence, etc.

And I just bask in Creation. The world, to me, screams out that God is there...somewhere. I cannot not believe in divine order. I just can't.

By definition, that is supernatural.
"Man will not live off of bread alone, but by every word proceeding through the mouth of God." "You are not able to serve God and wealth.".

User Info: kozlo100

kozlo100
1 month ago#7
YHWH_Saves posted...
And I just bask in Creation. The world, to me, screams out that God is there...somewhere. I cannot not believe in divine order. I just can't.


This is really not to knock your experience or say it's in any way false, but I get just the opposite sense. Nature to me looks like a mostly happy accident. Or maybe a lot of little happy accidents that lead to fun little haphazard systems of order emerging out of the chaos.

And I suppose in that vein, I'd say that was, by definition, natural.
Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.

User Info: LinkFanatic

LinkFanatic
1 month ago#8
kozlo100 posted...
These days, scientists will talk about things like multiple universes, or 'the bulk' as an external space in which our universe resides. This sort of thing is patently ridiculous by the strict definition of the term 'universe', which is 'all things as one'. There obviously can't be multiples of 'all things', and 'all things' can't have anything external to it.

And yet we get by because we've come to understand 'universe' not to mean all of absolutely everything, but just everything in the spacetime in which we find ourselves. By that definition there can be multiples and things external to it and so forth.


But the universe can actually be demonstrated to exist, so it's reasonable to conclude that there may be a multiverse. The supernatural is just a nebulous concept...a tautology.
Islam is Chaos Control.
(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: TurtleInFreedom

TurtleInFreedom
1 month ago#9
Not exactly. You'd have to use your faculties of reason to demonstrate that the universe exists, which in itself is a dogma because demonstration by observation requires that you use natural materials to demonstrate that natural materials exist. It's like trying to prove water by using water.

User Info: LinkFanatic

LinkFanatic
1 month ago#10
TurtleInFreedom posted...
Not exactly. You'd have to use your faculties of reason to demonstrate that the universe exists, which in itself is a dogma because demonstration by observation requires that you use natural materials to demonstrate that natural materials exist. It's like trying to prove water by using water.


I'd consider this a false equivalence.
Islam is Chaos Control.
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