This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

  • Topic Archived
You're browsing the GameFAQs Message Boards as a guest. Sign Up for free (or Log In if you already have an account) to be able to post messages, change how messages are displayed, and view media in posts.
  1. Boards
  2. Religion
  3. Does God want us to judge him?
#11
(message deleted)

User Info: Frolfer

Frolfer
3 months ago#12
TC, I'm confused. Who is it that you understand God to be? It seems to me that you're suggesting there are a bunch of finite beings--gods--running around and that the God of the Old Testament is just one of them.

Because obviously, Christians don't have that conception of God. We believe God is the Lord and creator of the universe, infinite in His majesty and understanding. To judge that God would be folly, for reasons I would think are obvious. To judge God as you seem to be describing Him...I dunno.

Also, why do you quote Christian scripture? You're certainly not going to convince Christians that it is their duty to judge their God by doing that. I mean, you'd completely have to ignore the book of Phillipians: "Have among yourselves the same attitude that is also yours in Christ Jesus, Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped." Do you accept certain Christian scriptures and not others? Just trying to understand here.
Wimoweh!

User Info: GnosticBishop

GnosticBishop
3 months ago#13
Frolfer posted...
To judge that God would be folly, for reasons I would think are obvious.


??

They do not seem obvious to you as you judge God just prior to writing this.

"We believe God is the Lord and creator of the universe, infinite in His majesty and understanding."

Your beliefs are a judgement call. You looked at whatever you looked at and decided/judged that your God had those attributes.

Do you have the whit to recognize that you are judging?

Frolfer posted...
Do you accept certain Christian scriptures and not others?


Yes. That is why we call ourselves Gnostic Christians.

We use the scriptures that you church never does as they empower you and power is the last think your church wants sheeple to have. It screw up the cash flow to their coffers.

I show some of those quotes and what they say in a post I have that explains why we call our God, I am. Please have a look.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that lazy Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

Regards
DL

User Info: TyVulpine

TyVulpine
3 months ago#14
If any god exists, I judge it (why does god need a gender?) to have failed humanity.
Murders, rapes, wars, famines, droughts, fires, earthquakes, and so on, and it does nothing but sit back and watch people die.
Fall down, go boom...
Life is like a box of chocolates. Most of it is crap.

User Info: GnosticBishop

GnosticBishop
3 months ago#15
TyVulpine posted...
If any god exists, I judge it (why does god need a gender?) to have failed humanity.
Murders, rapes, wars, famines, droughts, fires, earthquakes, and so on, and it does nothing but sit back and watch people die.


We have to have good and evil in an evolving world where we must compete and thus create victims and losers who will see their lose as evil befalling them.

It seems to me a God would be here telling us that.

But really, would we want a know it all God giving us all the answers and so much protection that we would be bored to death?

Regards
DL

User Info: TyVulpine

TyVulpine
3 months ago#16
GnosticBishop posted...
TyVulpine posted...
If any god exists, I judge it (why does god need a gender?) to have failed humanity.
Murders, rapes, wars, famines, droughts, fires, earthquakes, and so on, and it does nothing but sit back and watch people die.


We have to have good and evil in an evolving world where we must compete and thus create victims and losers who will see their lose as evil befalling them.

It seems to me a God would be here telling us that.

But really, would we want a know it all God giving us all the answers and so much protection that we would be bored to death?

Regards
DL

The Christian Bible claims their god had no problem talking to people, as their god talked to Adam, Eve, Cain, Moses, Noah, Saul, etc. Yet nothing from their god for the last 2,000 years? Why the sudden silence from their god?
Fall down, go boom...
Life is like a box of chocolates. Most of it is crap.

User Info: Frolfer

Frolfer
3 months ago#17
GnosticBishop posted...
Your beliefs are a judgement call. You looked at whatever you looked at and decided/judged that your God had those attributes.

Do you have the whit to recognize that you are judging?

Well you can't have it both ways. Sure, I have beliefs about God that derive from my Roman Catholic faith. If you want to call that judgement, fine. But how can you then say this?

GnosticBishop posted...
Christians, who are told by their own scriptures to judge righteously, are not doing so when it comes to [YHWH].

So yeah, my faith is my own reasoned decision - my "judgement call" if you prefer. But the question I perceived you to be asking is, "should we judge God based on His actions?" And to that question, my original point still stands: because I believe in an infinite, all-knowing, omnipotent creator of the universe, it would utter folly for me, a finite and limited being, to judge His actions. Romans 9:20: "O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it: Why hast thou made me thus?"

If I am understanding you correctly, it sounds as though you do not believe in such a God (not a judgement, just an observation). You've set yourself up as God:

GnosticBishop posted...
Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

(I would be interested in hearing about your cosmology: how did the universe come to be? - those sorts of questions). But anyway, all I can say to that is, I think you face a hard task arguing your points based solely on the traditional Christian canon of scripture. You're welcome to your own Gnostic scriptures. I just don't think you're going to convince many...uh, conventional? traditional? Christians by quoting their own scriptures at them when there is also so much in their scriptures which completely contradicts what you're trying to say. So why quote it at all? It's just arbitrary, it's just picking and choosing what you like.
Wimoweh!

User Info: YHWH_Saves

YHWH_Saves
3 months ago#18
It's all semantics, no?

Aside from thinking that it's blasphemous for the creature to judge the Creator, I think it's a silly notion - to disconnect Jesus from His Father as if to pit them against one another in some debate.

Jesus does the will of the Father (God - YHWH) to an unprecedented degree. Blame not God for any prior picture; blame humankind's own limited understanding.

By the way, the book of Revelation invokes the divine name, "YHWH," to denote God, so it is absurd to claim that Jesus is somehow an ambassador for something other.
"Man will not live off of bread alone, but by every word proceeding through the mouth of God." "You are not able to serve God and wealth.".

User Info: TyVulpine

TyVulpine
3 months ago#19
YHWH_Saves posted...
It's all semantics, no?

Aside from thinking that it's blasphemous for the creature to judge the Creator, I think it's a silly notion - to disconnect Jesus from His Father as if to pit them against one another in some debate.

Jesus does the will of the Father (God - YHWH) to an unprecedented degree. Blame not God for any prior picture; blame humankind's own limited understanding.

By the way, the book of Revelation invokes the divine name, "YHWH," to denote God, so it is absurd to claim that Jesus is somehow an ambassador for something other.

Sorry but no, I for one don’t accept the cliched “humans don’t understand god’s way of thinking”, as that’s simply a handwave for anything people can’t explain. It should be held to the same standard as anyone else, especially if it is the “lawgiver”. If it can’t abide by the standards and rules set for humanity, I decline to abide by it’s rules.
Fall down, go boom...
Life is like a box of chocolates. Most of it is crap.

User Info: YHWH_Saves

YHWH_Saves
3 months ago#20
TyVulpine posted...
Sorry but no, I for one don’t accept the cliched “humans don’t understand god’s way of thinking”, as that’s simply a handwave for anything people can’t explain. It should be held to the same standard as anyone else, especially if it is the “lawgiver”. If it can’t abide by the standards and rules set for humanity, I decline to abide by it’s rules.

Your point is really besides the point, but I'll address.

Humans know nothing, relative to all knowledge that is possible. If there is any God who fashioned it all, it is silly (but understandable) to exalt yourself to such a degree as to denounce the Father's judgments. It is akin to the teenage who is so separated from his/her dad in terms of life experience/maturity that he/she cannot understand why he can't have an open credit card, or cannot stay out in the streets past 10pm.

Pulling this discussion back into the God stuff, it is understandable that one who is spiritually immature cannot accept the Father's instruction. Those who have reached this point (and it's not a contest - we all move through this cycle) do understand God's mind/heart, and are invited to sit at the table with Him. It's not a handwave to say that God is otherwise unknowable apart from revelation; a child cannot understand his mother/father's instruction until he/she has garnered life experience.
"Man will not live off of bread alone, but by every word proceeding through the mouth of God." "You are not able to serve God and wealth.".
  1. Boards
  2. Religion
  3. Does God want us to judge him?
  • Topic Archived