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  3. Satan gave man love. Was it worth the hate?

User Info: OrangeWizard

OrangeWizard
3 months ago#11
TalesofLizalfos posted...
Unless Satan is just a title given to a major demon, Satan never convinced Adam and Eve to eat the apple. Lucifer wasn't Satan at the time of Genesis, as he got to screw over Job later in the Bible. Thus, Satan couldn't be the snake.


I don't see how this logic follows. Couldn't Satan both temp Eve and harm Job?

Also, in Revelation, it calls Satan "the original serpent", and a serpent temped Eve. Do you not see this as evidence that they were one and the same?

User Info: GnosticBishop

GnosticBishop
3 months ago#12
kozlo100 posted...
I've not seen an interpretation where the fruit of the tree represented love before. Where are you getting that from?

From my own personal interpretation of that myth, there's no actual choice to make. To my mind it's a story that we tell ourselves about what it is to be human and have a self-awareness, so it doesn't really make sense to me to put oneself in Adam or Eve's proverbial shoes.


FMPOV, all that happens in scriptures is written for us to internalize, much like your last indicates. You reject that notion while knowing they gained self awareness, just as you must have at some point in your mental evolution.

As to love, it has good and evil sides and without any knowledge of what is good or evil, A & E could not have known of love until their eyes were opened after they consumed the tree of knowledge.

Further, not knowing good or evil, they could not know if god or the serpent/Satan were good or evil either.

Regards
DL

User Info: GnosticBishop

GnosticBishop
3 months ago#13
OrangeWizard posted...
TalesofLizalfos posted...
Unless Satan is just a title given to a major demon, Satan never convinced Adam and Eve to eat the apple. Lucifer wasn't Satan at the time of Genesis, as he got to screw over Job later in the Bible. Thus, Satan couldn't be the snake.


I don't see how this logic follows. Couldn't Satan both temp Eve and harm Job?

Also, in Revelation, it calls Satan "the original serpent", and a serpent temped Eve. Do you not see this as evidence that they were one and the same?


I do. If not, and being supernaturally controlled by Satan, the serpent would have had to be controlled by god directly as serpents cannot speak naturally.

Regards
DL

User Info: GnosticBishop

GnosticBishop
3 months ago#14
3127 posted...
There is no “should we”. Only “will you” and “will I”. I will do what I will and you will do what you will.

“Should we” he says, lol.

I worship the dragon you speak of as well as the supreme God. I worship the supreme God more however as the Satan angel in my religion is fulfilling a divine purpose as a loyal extension of the supreme God’s power.


The Jews have the same view as Loyal Opposition as you do.

That is why they see Eden as where man was elevated, not where we fell.

Regards
DL

User Info: OrangeWizard

OrangeWizard
3 months ago#15
GnosticBishop posted...

I do. If not, and being supernaturally controlled by Satan, the serpent would have had to be controlled by god directly as serpents cannot speak naturally.

Regards
DL


Are you saying that only God can make serpents speak? Satan can't? Satan just doesn't have that ability?

Why do you think that Satan can't control serpents and make them speak?

Also, do you also reject the possibility that Satan merely produced a vision of a snake? Do you reject the possibility that he shape-shifted into a snake? It's not like "controlling a physical, Earth snake" is the only way to go about doing it.

User Info: GnosticBishop

GnosticBishop
3 months ago#16
OrangeWizard posted...
GnosticBishop posted...

I do. If not, and being supernaturally controlled by Satan, the serpent would have had to be controlled by god directly as serpents cannot speak naturally.

Regards
DL


Are you saying that only God can make serpents speak? Satan can't? Satan just doesn't have that ability?


The only power that the bible speaks of is the power to deceive the whole world that god gave Satan before casting her to earth. Now why that stupid S O B would gift us with Satan + extra deception power to use against us is never explained.

Nowhere is it said that god gave Satan the power to make animals speak human. Scriptures do say that god is all powerful and he could.

Who do you think controlled that serpent that day?

Why do you think that Satan can't control serpents and make them speak?


See above.

Also, do you also reject the possibility that Satan merely produced a vision of a snake?


Yes as then scriptures would have to explain what god cursed to lose it's legs and crawl forever.

Do you reject the possibility that he shape-shifted into a snake? It's not like "controlling a physical, Earth snake" is the only way to go about doing it.


Yes because of what I put just above.

Regards
DL

User Info: Dagorha

Dagorha
3 months ago#17
I'm confused TC. I know that Gnostics tend think the OT God is a Demiurge, but I don't recall any Gnostic teachings that would praise the devil.
Songs that the Hyades shall sing, Where flap the tatters of the King,
Must die unheard in Dim Carcosa.

User Info: GnosticBishop

GnosticBishop
3 months ago#18
Dagorha posted...
I'm confused TC. I know that Gnostics tend think the OT God is a Demiurge, but I don't recall any Gnostic teachings that would praise the devil.


Are you addressing me?

Regards
DL

User Info: kozlo100

kozlo100
3 months ago#19
GnosticBishop posted...
FMPOV, all that happens in scriptures is written for us to internalize, much like your last indicates.


So, am I to understand that the answer to "where are you getting that from?" is "myself"?
Time flies like the wind,
and fruit flies like a banana.

User Info: loki00_00

loki00_00
3 months ago#20
More like Satan was trying to impress Adam's girlfriend with
beautiful apples of knowledge, to seduce her, and she was dumb
enough to stay with her boyfriend, who is bereft of value.

As a result of Satan being lonely after this,
all evil in the world flowed forth like an ocean.

The real question,
Why would God create something ugly?
Why would God create something evil?
Why would God make a mistake?

God does not make mistakes,
and just because you cannot see his plan in full,
it does not mean, necessarily, does it,
that things turn out badly for Satan in the end.

Indeed, if God created him, he created him for a purpose.

He was even nice enough to give him his own kingdom,
where he can torture his enemies to his heart's content.

Which he likes to do.

It was a nice thing to do for him,
I don't know why he's mad at God.

I see neither an evil creature without value,
or a God seeing no purpose in this creature.

Only fools would ever believe such things.....

They assert their God is a flawed butterfingers, ie = NOT GOD
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