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A legitimate question (not trying to troll)

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User Info: OnceInALifeTime

OnceInALifeTime
7 years ago#1
Put the disclaimer because asking (in a very civil way) if anybody believed in Noah's Ark is apparently trolling. Anyway, the question is this:

Which is the more moral action? Doing something because it is the right thing to do, or doing something because it'll increase your chances of going to heaven?

What I mean is, if somebody has hurt themselves and somebody rushes to their aid purely because doing so is the most moral action, and a second bypasser instantly thinks "it's the Christian thing to do by helping this person, it'll please the Lord", would you agree that one is more moral than the other?

And a second question: do you ever think doing something against your deities will can be moral? Can doing something that'll land you in hell or in the bad books of your deity ever be the right thing to do? I was thinking about the Catholic church's opinion on gay adoption, and as it is now demonstrable that gay couples do not harm a child in any way (instances of child abuse are the lowest among lesbian couples than other adoption group iirc) surely it is acceptable for a Catholic priest to say "I know I'm going to go to hell for giving children away for adoption with gay couples, but I'll be genuinely helping hundreds of children find good homes and so it's worth it"?

I guess the key question is "is appealing to what I believe is the ultimate authority more important than doing what I believe is right?".
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-396-1161708490.jpg :: sound advice from the NHS
"I like FosterTaken" - Darth Snake

User Info: penance44

penance44
7 years ago#2
Wait, your Noahs Ark topic got deleted for trolling?

lolfaqs.
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day. Give a man religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
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User Info: OnceInALifeTime

OnceInALifeTime
7 years ago#3
No karma loss. To be honest I've had far worse moderations. I once got modded for telling people I got called a racial slur, as well as saying in a historical topic that cultures used to practise pederasty, as being "offensive".
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-396-1161708490.jpg :: sound advice from the NHS
"I like FosterTaken" - Darth Snake

User Info: WelshGamer82

WelshGamer82
7 years ago#4

From: OnceInALifeTime | Posted: 7/13/2011 12:18:31 PM | #001
What I mean is, if somebody has hurt themselves and somebody rushes to their aid purely because doing so is the most moral action, and a second bypasser instantly thinks "it's the Christian thing to do by helping this person, it'll please the Lord", would you agree that one is more moral than the other?


No, not really.

EDIT: I should point out that even if one is more moral than the other, it doesn't make any difference (to me at least). I don't think of myself as a "moral" person.

I guess the key question is "is appealing to what I believe is the ultimate authority more important than doing what I believe is right?".


I don't personally think it's possible for a Christian to look at the morality that God has set out for us to follow, do the polar opposite, and think that what they're doing is "right", so I find the question to be somewhat of a misnomer.
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7020/jesustwitter.jpg
On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand. < ><

User Info: king_gimpy

king_gimpy
7 years ago#5
OnceInALifeTime posted...
No karma loss. To be honest I've had far worse moderations. I once got modded for telling people I got called a racial slur, as well as saying in a historical topic that cultures used to practise pederasty, as being "offensive".

WTF.

To answer the topic question, I think they're sort of similar in a way. The person acting to please the lord thinks pleasing him is the moral thing to do.
When I was born the doctor twisted up the facts,
he said that I was a devil son so now I'm having flashbacks.

User Info: OnceInALifeTime

OnceInALifeTime
7 years ago#6
Even when it can be demonstrated in an objective way that it IS the moral thing to do, even if the bible says otherwise?
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-396-1161708490.jpg :: sound advice from the NHS
"I like FosterTaken" - Darth Snake

User Info: Suibom

Suibom
7 years ago#7
OnceInALifeTime posted...
Even when it can be demonstrated in an objective way that it IS the moral thing to do, even if the bible says otherwise?

Moral thing to you, maybe.

Try and see it from the viewpoint of someone that does believe there's a God, that does believe that He has the final say on what's right and wrong.

In the past, I was pretty zealous about imposing my beliefs on others that didn't share them. Outspoken. Prideful. I've toned it back a lot over the years as my belief has changed that I'm not the judge or ruler of the world. If the world wants gay marriage or abortion or whatever, fine. You'll hear no protest from me. Legislating Christian morals doesn't work.

But, if a Christian, one who I am in this struggle for eternal life with, wants to go along with something that I (and hopefully, most Christians) believe is wrong, then I'll say something about it. To the world, a gay couple adopting a kid seems like the moral thing to do. To a Catholic, who believes that homosexuality is a sin, they're not going to go along with that, even if said world says their beliefs are "not with the times."

To me, the God who said that theft is wrong... the God who said that murder is wrong... the God who said that lying is wrong is also the God who said other things are wrong that the world finds socially acceptable. And because I trust that He's right in the easy to go along with things, I also trust that He's right in things I may personally find questionable. But I'm not in a position to question Him.

So to a Christian, I feel that whatever would please the Lord IS the moral thing to do. They're one in the same, regardless of how the world may choose to differentiate them.
If honor be your clothing, the suit will last a lifetime; but if clothing be your honor, it will soon be worn threadbare.~ William Arnot

User Info: WelshGamer82

WelshGamer82
7 years ago#8

From: OnceInALifeTime | Posted: 7/13/2011 2:11:35 PM | #006
Even when it can be demonstrated in an objective way that it IS the moral thing to do


Pray tell, how might one demonstrate this?
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7020/jesustwitter.jpg
On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand. < ><

User Info: the_hedonist

the_hedonist
7 years ago#9
OnceInALifeTime posted...
Which is the more moral action? Doing something because it is the right thing to do, or doing something because it'll increase your chances of going to heaven?

Umm...both? Here is the way I think of it: you should do moral actions because it is your duty. It is your responsibility. It is the right thing to do. But you should also do them because by doing so, your joy in God will increase. If you begrudgingly follow God's commands, you do not show that God is good. You reveal what you think of him. So you should not do something solely out of duty, neither should you do it solely for self interest.

Heaven is one of the rewards of following God, but we should note why it is a reward. Ultimately God is the reward of Christianity. We get to enjoy his presence. If you truly do not love God more than anything else, you will not be going to heaven anyway (I should say that our actions do not always reveal this because we still live in sinful bodies, but if our spirit has been regenerated, then we ultimately do love God highest). So if you want to go to heaven because hellfire doesn't sound fun, streets of gold sounds cool, and you won't have to work hard in heaven, then you're missing the point. The reward is God.

And a second question: do you ever think doing something against your deities will can be moral? Can doing something that'll land you in hell or in the bad books of your deity ever be the right thing to do?

God's will is always the right thing to do. If what you think is God's will is immoral, then either you are wrong about God's will and you should try to figure what his will really is, or then God is evil, and you shouldn't follow Him at all.
Thumbs up for rock 'n' roll.
~The Christian Hedonist~
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