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  3. Split brain patients with opposing beliefs - heard of this before?

User Info: Jigglysaint

Jigglysaint
8 years ago#21
Ahh, interesting. I know of a girl who contracted brain damage though a childhood infection and as a result, she seems act as if she has no "soul". You can sort of see it. This person apparently has severe behavioral problems, requires a support worker with her at all times, and is limited in her participation in programs because of her tendency to become violent.

I've been thinking about a theory that individuals who lose parts of their brains that result in radical personality shifts actually have their "soul" split in half. That is to say that the brain may realize that part of what makes a person the way they are isn't functioning, but instead of compensating, it malfunctions. I would not be surprised if the grumpy temperamental nature of some brain injury patients is a result of frustration in trying to access parts of the brain that no longer work. I mean it's about as annoying as trying to access a corrupted save file, except you are doing it every 5 seconds because everything you know used to access that file all the time.

Now, in relation to theology, specifically the Christian doctrine of the resurrection, either spiritual or physical, that person would become whole again and whatever was missing before would be restored. Who knows, maybe our "soul" is actually stored in the Cloud and when we die, our info is backed up to be restored at a later date.

User Info: hero boy

hero boy
8 years ago#22
SirThinkALot posted...
The other piece is conscious awareness, but that's vague to handle, and I'd argue then that at least some animals have souls too, and it still raises some sticky questions.

I dont think theres anything inherently problamatic with animals having souls of some kind.


By sticky questions, I mean questions like whether or not newborns or catatonics are consciously aware.
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw

User Info: gamesrgreat

gamesrgreat
8 years ago#23
That's damn crazy. But yeah if theism is true then what happens to this guy?
Cyclops has never beaten Wolverine
We Three Kings- The Miami Heat

User Info: Guide

Guide
8 years ago#24
Half goes to heaven, half goes to hell. If the brains are separated completely, he's possibly lobotomized for all time. If they're connected, he can possibly hax the entire supernatural dimensional order.
Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. -- Robert Heinlein
'Would have', not 'would of'.

User Info: cyclonekruse

cyclonekruse
8 years ago#25
hero boy posted...
I just find it difficult that you use this analogy without an answer to the question. Using your analogy, the memories, personality and mannerisms can't be given to the driver, because all that can be changed with brain damage. The other piece is conscious awareness, but that's vague to handle, and I'd argue then that at least some animals have souls too, and it still raises some sticky questions.

I can use the analogy because it's not really an answer so much as it is a counterexample. The challenge posed was to demonstrate how a soul could exist given that altering the brain alters personality. I gave an analogy trying to show that just because there is a shift in personality does not necessarily mean a soul cannot exist. That's all.

anavriN posted...
I think this is a weak analogy. The change in behavior would stop as soon as the person got out of the car and did something else (play golf, chat with friends, cook, et cetera). But in the instances of severe brain lesion as described, the change in personality is radical and permanent.

On the contrary, getting out of the car won't alter the behavior. There is something wrong with the car and no matter who's behind the wheel, there's going to be erratic acceleration due to a faulty sensor. It's not just going to fix itself.

Faust_8 posted...
The other problem with the driver analogy is the analogy only deals with how people see you, and not quantifiable changes in beliefs and patterns of actions.

While it's true that someone's perception of someone else can be wrong, it's still true that that someone still HAS a personality of their own. We're not talking about simply a shift in someone's perception of another guy.


Not so. Let's say your brake lines are cut. That's not simply an issue of perception. Your driving behavior will radically change. Permanently.

Something I'd like to point out is that I'm puzzled at the focus on brain damage. Any personality shift will go hand-in-hand with a change in brain chemistry. It can be gradual or sudden, but you could posit that the change in behavior is just as much due to a change in the brain. And it doesn't even have to be something like depression. It can simply be part of aging. The brain is changing constantly. Why do we need to address changes due to damage but not for other reasons?
Locke: "Why do you find it so hard to believe?" || Jack "Why do you find it so easy?!" ||
Locke: "It's never been easy!"

User Info: Faust_8

Faust_8
8 years ago#26
Not so. Let's say your brake lines are cut. That's not simply an issue of perception. Your driving behavior will radically change. Permanently.

That's not the example you gave, so I don't see how that invalidates what I said.

Something I'd like to point out is that I'm puzzled at the focus on brain damage. Any personality shift will go hand-in-hand with a change in brain chemistry. It can be gradual or sudden, but you could posit that the change in behavior is just as much due to a change in the brain. And it doesn't even have to be something like depression. It can simply be part of aging. The brain is changing constantly. Why do we need to address changes due to damage but not for other reasons?

I think it's simply because damage inflicts incredibly sudden and drastic change. One day they're A, next day they're B...

It just really drives home that the brain is responsible for personality and consciousness, not some immaterial soul.
Religions tell children they might avoid hell...while science tells children they came from the stars.

User Info: cyclonekruse

cyclonekruse
8 years ago#27
Faust_8 posted...
That's not the example you gave, so I don't see how that invalidates what I said.

The example I gave was of a faulty mass air flow sensor. That too is not simply a perceived difference in behavior. That is an actual difference caused by the hardware.

I think it's simply because damage inflicts incredibly sudden and drastic change. One day they're A, next day they're B...

It just really drives home that the brain is responsible for personality and consciousness, not some immaterial soul.


Again, this does not really count as evidence against the idea of a soul. Actually, let's take out the soul. Let's just say consciousness is an emergent property of the brain. Damaging the brain will alter consciousness. However, It would not be correct to say that the brain IS consciousness. It's the SEAT of consciousness. It's a subtle but important difference. I do admit that your brain might be responsible for "you" but it doesn't equate to "you."
Locke: "Why do you find it so hard to believe?" || Jack "Why do you find it so easy?!" ||
Locke: "It's never been easy!"

User Info: Faust_8

Faust_8
8 years ago#28
The example I gave was of a faulty mass air flow sensor. That too is not simply a perceived difference in behavior. That is an actual difference caused by the hardware.

Actually in your first example you were only talking about the perception of his driving style. Not what actually changed. :P

Kinda splitting hairs, I know.

Again, this does not really count as evidence against the idea of a soul. Actually, let's take out the soul. Let's just say consciousness is an emergent property of the brain. Damaging the brain will alter consciousness. However, It would not be correct to say that the brain IS consciousness. It's the SEAT of consciousness. It's a subtle but important difference. I do admit that your brain might be responsible for "you" but it doesn't equate to "you."

I suppose you can interpret it that way, but you have to admit it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence concerning the existence of the soul.

Once something is proved to be unnecessary, people start losing their belief in it. The brain just starts doing Occam's Razor on its own. Whether the brain is consciousness, or just the seat...but the result is the same either way, people tend to just remove the extra add-on.

Also, why would god do that on purpose? Why would he make your soul HAVE to go through your brain to act on your body, when the brain can be damaged? It's questions like these that make people stop believing in stuff like this.
Religions tell children they might avoid hell...while science tells children they came from the stars.
the final bahamut 8 years ago#29
I'm not reading the rest of this topic, but my thoughts on souls and brains are as follows:


The brain is basically a ouiji board: An interface between the intangible soul and the tangible world. This means that the soul is dependent upon the brain in order to make sense of this world. The soul is a spiritual thing, and does not reside in the physical world. This is why brain damage results in behavioural changes: It'd be like if your computer suddenly starting showing everything entirely different. The living human being experiences itself through the brain, and whether the soul remains unaffected by the brains alterations, I cannot, therefore guess.
E ys Bahamut! oui risyhc puna sa! Oui uvvaht sa cahcac!!!
DISCLAIMER: I'm not accountable for this post. I don't know English I just hit keys at random.

User Info: OrangeWizard

OrangeWizard
8 years ago#30
You know what I think?
Genesis 2:7 "...and the man came to be a living soul"
"this game is about reality. ... when you fire a gun you are not like "what is this am i shooting sausages?""
-General_Dong on Black Ops
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