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User Info: Two dollar shoe

Two dollar shoe
8 years ago#11
Why did the guy think it would send waves through the theological community? It's just basically a real world example of fission thought experiments that have been discussed for decades.
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User Info: kirsybuu

kirsybuu
8 years ago#12

From: cyclonekruse | Posted: 5/29/2011 9:26:56 PM | #010
Car and driver analogy. Let's say I'm following you on the road. If I do it long enough, i can get a sense of your driving habits--your personality behind the wheel. Now, let's say your engine suffers some damage. Maybe the mass air flow sensor is on the fritz. Now your acceleration patters are more erratic. Your driving personality will have changed without any change to you.


So what if instead the car is cut in half down the middle and both halves can still drive?
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User Info: hero boy

hero boy
8 years ago#13
cyclonekruse posted...

Car and driver analogy. Let's say I'm following you on the road. If I do it long enough, i can get a sense of your driving habits--your personality behind the wheel. Now, let's say your engine suffers some damage. Maybe the mass air flow sensor is on the fritz. Now your acceleration patters are more erratic. Your driving personality will have changed without any change to you.


I agree more with kirsybuu. To me, your example describes how a person can normally change over their life. I disagree that it provides an accurate portrayal of this case, and what about people with multiple personalities?

What aspects of a person do you tie with the driver in your example and not the car?
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User Info: cyclonekruse

cyclonekruse
8 years ago#14
kirsybuu posted...
So what if instead the car is cut in half down the middle and both halves can still drive?

It could still only mean one driver. Maybe you were never in the car but controlling it remotely. And you have two controls, one for the left wheels and one for the right wheels. Your new half-cars would clearly have different driving characteristics than the whole car did.

Also, from the video it is unclear whether both these personalities are present at all times. Perhaps the "person" is jumping back and forth between the two halves and the difference in the information that each half has is causing different answers to questions.

hero boy posted...
I agree more with kirsybuu. To me, your example describes how a person can normally change over their life. I disagree that it provides an accurate portrayal of this case, and what about people with multiple personalities?

What aspects of a person do you tie with the driver in your example and not the car?


Well, that's the question isn't it? What aspects of a you make up "you"? Your memories? Your personality? Your mannerisms? Your conscious awareness? Some combination of these things?
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User Info: hero boy

hero boy
8 years ago#15
cyclonekruse posted...

Well, that's the question isn't it? What aspects of a you make up "you"? Your memories? Your personality? Your mannerisms? Your conscious awareness? Some combination of these things?


I just find it difficult that you use this analogy without an answer to the question. Using your analogy, the memories, personality and mannerisms can't be given to the driver, because all that can be changed with brain damage. The other piece is conscious awareness, but that's vague to handle, and I'd argue then that at least some animals have souls too, and it still raises some sticky questions.
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User Info: anavriN

anavriN
8 years ago#16
Car and driver analogy.

I think this is a weak analogy. The change in behavior would stop as soon as the person got out of the car and did something else (play golf, chat with friends, cook, et cetera). But in the instances of severe brain lesion as described, the change in personality is radical and permanent.
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User Info: SirThinkALot

SirThinkALot
8 years ago#17
Neuroscience is full of cases where brain leisure leads to personality change. If a material defect can cause this, where does a 'soul' come in?

I personally dont view the soul and brain as seperate entities, more specifically the soul does not exist without a brain for it to emerge from.

The analogy I liike to use is to a computer: the software(ie the soul) doesnt exist in any meaningful way without the hardware(the physical brain and body). It also follows that a defect in the hardware can cause software malfunctions.

Its not a perfect analogy, particularly since it doesnt capture the emergent property of the soul, but I think it captures the idea clear enough.
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User Info: SirThinkALot

SirThinkALot
8 years ago#18
Why did the guy think it would send waves through the theological community? It's just basically a real world example of fission thought experiments that have been discussed for decades.

Yea, I gurantee you can find all sorts of similar thought experments by googleing 'metaphysics of persons.'

Its interesting to see a real-world example though. As philosophy can often become way too abstract.
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User Info: SirThinkALot

SirThinkALot
8 years ago#19
The other piece is conscious awareness, but that's vague to handle, and I'd argue then that at least some animals have souls too, and it still raises some sticky questions.

I dont think theres anything inherently problamatic with animals having souls of some kind.
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User Info: Faust_8

Faust_8
8 years ago#20
The other problem with the driver analogy is the analogy only deals with how people see you, and not quantifiable changes in beliefs and patterns of actions.

While it's true that someone's perception of someone else can be wrong, it's still true that that someone still HAS a personality of their own. We're not talking about simply a shift in someone's perception of another guy.
Religions tell children they might avoid hell...while science tells children they came from the stars.
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