This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

  • Topic Archived
You're browsing the GameFAQs Message Boards as a guest. Sign Up for free (or Log In if you already have an account) to be able to post messages, change how messages are displayed, and view media in posts.
  1. Boards
  2. Religion
  3. Why Satan isn't evil...

User Info: actarus

actarus
8 years ago#71
Josiah_Revived posted...
This topic doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Perhaps it's just me, but I think one of the problems is the disparity between the Old and New Testaments, specifically, the "God" figure therein. The God of the OT seems quite dissimilar to the God of the NT. So, saying something like, "the Bible proves God was mean," or something similar, must be qualified. What God are you talking about? If you're referring to the God of the OT, you're referring to the Jewish deity, and thus Judaism.
In that case, Jesus and any elements of Christianity don't belong in the discussion, IMO.


The God of the Old and New Testaments is the same otherwise is Christianity false because it is based on the Old Testament. Did you even READ the bible?
And we are not talking about oral traditions or Apocrypha that contradict the Old Testament.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=270&letter=S
Even the smallest star twinkles in the dark

User Info: inferiorweasel

inferiorweasel
8 years ago#72
Lucifer is never referenced as evil, just arrogant. He believes he would be a better God than his own Father. But you notice Satan doesn't have any struggles believing in God. Why do you mr Satanist?
Live and Learn
Forgiveness is Divine.

User Info: inferiorweasel

inferiorweasel
8 years ago#73
OnceInALifeTime posted...
We need to hear Satan's side of the story. People are always "Jesus this, Moses that"...maybe Satan has to much dignity to sell his story to TV evangelists.

Read the book by Alister Crowley. Do as though wilt is the whole of the law. Satan wants you to believe yourself to be God. Gnostic teachings are very clear about Satan's version of events.
Live and Learn
Forgiveness is Divine.

User Info: sextronbot

sextronbot
8 years ago#74

From: AtomicItalian | #070
Itt: subjective morals.

Lol you don't get to make statements about good and evil, dude. At least none anyone will take seriously.

Come back when you're done making moral statements backed up with monopoly money.


Simple question:

Does a society that permits immoral acts such as rape and murder sound like one that would be able to function well and last long?
RIP Butters_1188 2005-2009 :'(
Karma: 637

User Info: OrangeWizard

OrangeWizard
8 years ago#75
inferiorweasel posted...
Lucifer is never referenced as evil, just arrogant. He believes he would be a better God than his own Father. But you notice Satan doesn't have any struggles believing in God. Why do you mr Satanist?



Lucifer is also not Satan.
"this game is about reality. ... when you fire a gun you are not like "what is this am i shooting sausages?""
-General_Dong on Black Ops

User Info: ledzepfan15

ledzepfan15
8 years ago#76
I'm going to correct myself because I missed something that I shouldn't have.

So the only reason you behave morally is fear of punishment?

I don't see how got "The only reason you behave morally is out of fear of punishment" from "There is no objective morality without God".
People don't willingly just listen to someone else telling them to do (or not do) something, simply because that person says so without reason. Listening to God simply from fear of punishment is not morality.

But no, I do it because I try to maintain my integrity because it leaves me with a clear conscience and because God said I should, and promises me candy if I do. Fear of punishment is a motive though, but it's not the only motive.
So if God instructs you to do something that 90% of the population considers immoral, would you have a clear conscience after?

Is there such a thing as objective universal morality without God?
I said yes to this earlier, and your response was: "If there's no objective moral standard, then morals are subjective, and thus, there's no act you can look at and say "that's not right", without adding "In my opinion."
Firstly, morality is largely subjective. Doing the right thing is not equivalent to what God commands, and there are plenty of examples of this. Ethics and morality cannot be grounded in god, and even if it could, which god? Every person will claim his or her god is the alpha omega.
One need not say "IMO" when discussion certain morals when there are moral laws that every sane person abides by. When you get down to specifics, then it gets different. If it's everyone's opinion that X is morally wrong, it becomes a sort of standard.

Plus, laws are made by men, who aren't universal, and their laws and opinions are subjective and can be, and are, changed.
Oh yes, because human methods are self-correcting.

These are the same humans who thought that the African-American slave trade was okay. Really now, the slave trade just is a shining example that flips the bird to your entire point.
I addressed this in:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/263-religion/59235899
Also I'd like to point out:
There is slavery in Sudan. Christian groups have gone there in effort to alleviate the problem by providing freedom to many people. Since they do this, the supply of slaves have gone down, which results in increased demand (and higher prices). Since prices go up, people who wouldn't usually become slaves, end up in the system. These Christian groups who do this with good intention, end up causing more harm than intended.

You didn't answer my question, so I'll have to mimic you:
You: "The universal objective moral laws!"

This isn't even what I do, so grow up.
I asked a question to your question because you started with an assumption. You automatically asked for a source that declared stoning wrong, and I responded by asking you why a source is even required? Just because there isn't an authoritative source decrying stoning, doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with it.
"If you think, you are late. If you are late, you use strength. If you use strength, you tire. And if you tire, you die." - Saulo Ribeiro

User Info: OrangeWizard

OrangeWizard
8 years ago#77
ledzepfan15 posted...

So if God instructs you to do something that 90% of the population considers immoral, would you have a clear conscience after?


Probably yes. However, I don't see how what I think or feel matters.


Firstly, morality is largely subjective. Doing the right thing is not equivalent to what God commands,


Yes, if you assume that morality is largely subjective, then it is. However, you can't just pass this off as fact. What's your basis?

And before, you said that there was an objective universal standard of morality, now you're saying it's largely subjective. Which is it?


and there are plenty of examples of this. Ethics and morality cannot be grounded in god, and even if it could, which god? Every person will claim his or her god is the alpha omega.


Yes, yes it can be grounded in God. Very easily, in fact.

"Which God" doesn't matter. At all. We're discussing the concept of objective morality existing or not.


One need not say "IMO" when discussion certain morals when there are moral laws that every sane person abides by.


Without an objective morality, this is implied at the end of every moral opinion, since your subjective morals differ from everyone



When you get down to specifics, then it gets different. If it's everyone's opinion that X is morally wrong, it becomes a sort of standard.


Yes, a community standard. In this case, does majority rule? What if some community with a lot of guns enslave your community, and then their morals become your morals?
Then it's still subjective morality.


I asked a question to your question because you started with an assumption. You automatically asked for a source that declared stoning wrong, and I responded by asking you why a source is even required? Just because there isn't an authoritative source decrying stoning, doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with it.


And if there's no objective morality, then there's nothing to prove that the people who are doing the stoning are wrong.

That's how objective morality works. Without it, everything's subjective. There's nothing objectively wrong. This is a logical fact. You cannot get around this.
"this game is about reality. ... when you fire a gun you are not like "what is this am i shooting sausages?""
-General_Dong on Black Ops

User Info: ledzepfan15

ledzepfan15
8 years ago#78
OW, I moved this discussion into

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/263-religion/59294573
"If you think, you are late. If you are late, you use strength. If you use strength, you tire. And if you tire, you die." - Saulo Ribeiro
  1. Boards
  2. Religion
  3. Why Satan isn't evil...
  • Topic Archived