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  3. If anyone still wonders why creationism is not taken seriously...

User Info: god_of_toast

god_of_toast
8 years ago#31
TheRealJiraiya posted...
I am a theistic evolutionist, although I am not super passionate about it, I find it extremely interesting. I actually prefer that method of creation to the "snapped his fingers and it happened" approach. I think God intentionally created the world such that we could discover certain truths about it, and that science honors God by striving to understand His creation. I think he gave us the puzzle pieces because he wants us to put them together.

This is how I view evolution.
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User Info: mercuryink

mercuryink
8 years ago#32
To the idea that nature mercilessly kills off the weak to select out the most competitive offspring? Are we supposed to derive some kind of morality or message from that?
Humans have found another model. We cooperate to maximize the survival of the maximum number of individuals. Just ask Stephen Hawking, who has no business still being alive in your version of things.
Some people are proof that G-d exists; evolution would have prevented them.
New Jersey Devils -- Stanley Cup Champions -- 1995-2000-2003

User Info: hunter_gohan

hunter_gohan
8 years ago#33
mercuryink posted...
To the idea that nature mercilessly kills off the weak to select out the most competitive offspring? Are we supposed to derive some kind of morality or message from that?
Humans have found another model. We cooperate to maximize the survival of the maximum number of individuals. Just ask Stephen Hawking, who has no business still being alive in your version of things.


True. Assuming theistic evolution is right, I would say it's quite telling that God's chosen species is the only one that has risen above that and deliberately keeps it's weaker members alive(to the best of our ability of course) because we have come to value life so much.

User Info: squareandrare

squareandrare
8 years ago#34
...way to dance around this issue. That doesn't even begin to answer the question of why an omnipotent god would choose a process of such immeasurable cruelty. Saying that humanity does its best to not be so incredibly cruel simply doesn't address the issue.

And the idea that humanity is the only species to look after weak members is simply incorrect.
"Physics is not a religion. If it were, we'd have a much easier time raising money."
-- Leon Lederman

User Info: squareandrare

squareandrare
8 years ago#35
And when I said "killing off the weak," I didn't mean members of the same species physically killing the weak members of their species (though that does happen). I meant nature killing off the weak. Natural selection works by the weak being eliminated by forces that they can't compete with.
"Physics is not a religion. If it were, we'd have a much easier time raising money."
-- Leon Lederman

User Info: Adito99

Adito99
8 years ago#36
I agree that the problem of cruelty is a big one for theistic evolutionists. I also want to head off ideas that humans are somehow going against nature by helping weaker members with medicine. This is simply not true. What would you call an adaptive strategy that did not involve complex technology? Obviously it would just be a strategy deemed useful by the process of evolution. But why should our ability to use technology (including medicine) not be considered such a strategy? I don't see how it's different in any relevant aspect. Contemporary medicine is just a more complicated version of an adaptive strategy and it's perfectly 'natural.'
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind
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User Info: gamesrgreat

gamesrgreat
8 years ago#37

From: squareandrare | #023
I generally don't make this argument because I'm afraid it will push people to YEC, but seriously, theistic evolution doesn't make any sense from the perspective of the major religions. Are you telling me that God had modern man in mind as his chosen species, and the way he created that species was through a multi-billion year trial-and-error process that perpetuates itself by selectively killing off the weak? Really? An omnipotent, omniscient god couldn't come up with anything less sadistic than that?


This is more of a problem if you are a theist in the sense of believing in the Christian God.
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User Info: sthater

sthater
8 years ago#38

From: gamesrgreat | Posted: 5/24/2011 4:01:05 PM | #037
This is more of a problem if you are a theist in the sense of believing in the Christian God.


Really? I don't really see it as any worse then the Flood or the Destruction of Sodom and Gommorrah or killing all the Canaanites.
Like my loafers? Former gophers -It was that or skin my chauffeurs,
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User Info: squareandrare

squareandrare
8 years ago#39
This is more of a problem if you are a theist in the sense of believing in the Christian God.

Which is why I said "from the perspective of the major religions."
"Physics is not a religion. If it were, we'd have a much easier time raising money."
-- Leon Lederman

User Info: hunter_gohan

hunter_gohan
8 years ago#40
"...way to dance around this issue. That doesn't even begin to answer the question of why an omnipotent god would choose a process of such immeasurable cruelty. Saying that humanity does its best to not be so incredibly cruel simply doesn't address the issue."

I never said it was bullet proof, I just liked that line of thought, but yeah doesn't really work that well the more you think about it.

"And the idea that humanity is the only species to look after weak members is simply incorrect."

"Contemporary medicine is just a more complicated version of an adaptive strategy and it's perfectly 'natural.'"

True true, I didn't think that through very well honestly.
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