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  3. Does alt-science, alt-math, and alt-history deserve a platform?

User Info: SuperInfinity46

SuperInfinity46
3 weeks ago#41
Gumbotron posted...
SuperInfinity46 posted...
That makes sense if you just intend on s***ting on the idea of "alt-anything" as some kind of brownie points for your political opinion. It has no relation to the meaning of alt anything.

The minority viewpoint, ie. alternative to the mainstream, has been proven right many times.

I'd give you that I kinda lost it there, but what would alt-math be? It can't be my fault that I can cite the bowling green masacare as alt-history. You'd really have to take it up with Kellyanne for alternative-facts. Or the overwhelming number fraud relating to alternative medicine.

Math is self-defined, and largely* consistent. It's actively being applied in engineering in the real world, and is measurably reliable. It's also very encompassing.

ps. I i was after brownie points, I would be 100% behind the HK protest. I'm not.


I already tried to explain it - alt math would involve setting different ground rules on topics such as infinities, zero, irrational numbers and so on, how you deal with them. Then does this make sense and form a coherent and reasonable perspective. Math isn't self-defined at all, you're thinking of the calculations of values to problems. As Romes187 stated some of these things were originally set by philosophers.

Alternative medicine is a very respectable "alt" some of the time. Yes there's fraud in it, but arguably no more than mainstream medicine a lot of the time. The thing about alternative medicine fraud is that when it hits the headlines it's usually the really bad kind like someone refusing cancer treatment or routine vaccines or some exotic herb nonsense. Many have pushed for it to be called "complementary medicine" instead because it's rarely a good idea to ignore mainstream medicine.

Garry Kasparov subscribes to an alternative chronology of history:.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)

An example of alt-relativity might be Oleg Jefimenko's theory of electromagnetic reta*dation.

"alt" of a whole subject though might prove challenging because there are so many aspects of it.

If people find the GOP of America lacking, but are still on the right, then why not call it the alt right? Many on the alt right are terrible people yes but there's something so confused and ridiculous about this thread. You can't call something that's an "alternative" view to be bad or misguided just because it's not mainstream. .

I almost wasn't going to answer OP because I find it a so ridiculous. But I just want to say that because something is "alt" it doesn't mean it's a bad idea. Now that's it, I'm more than done here.
He who understands baboon would do more towards metaphysics than Locke. - Charles Darwin

User Info: tankboy

tankboy
3 weeks ago#42
I think the confusion is due to "the definition game". The definition of "alt-right" is NOT a perfectly reasonable, but alternative, political philosophy. It is not the stance that (for example) America should generally be isolationist, or that financial risk should be transferred from corporations to individuals. Those thoughts might put you on the "right", but are not sufficient to put you in the "alt-right". No, the alt-right requires a reality-ignoring anti-education worse-than-wrong fabrication of facts.

Alternative math might include discrete algebra, or maybe attempts to prove certain theories without resorting to inductive logic.

But alt-math, if we are using the term in the same way that we use "alt-right", would be declaring that modus ponens is "bad" and then carrying on like that's perfectly reasonable, especially if you maliciously know that most people don't even know what that means.

User Info: acolytes

acolytes
3 weeks ago#43
What is alt-history? Like, holocaust denial?
"I learned about the blues from this kitten I knew, her hair was raven and her heart was like a tomb. My heart's like a wound."

User Info: SuperInfinity46

SuperInfinity46
3 weeks ago#44
acolytes posted...
What is alt-history? Like, holocaust denial?


Did you not read tankboy's post directly above yours?

"alt" has no inherent value attributable to it. Just because something is not the mainstream dogma of the time does not make it wrong and stupid.
He who understands baboon would do more towards metaphysics than Locke. - Charles Darwin

User Info: tankboy

tankboy
3 weeks ago#45
I would say that Holocaust denial is *definitely* alt-history:
* Fabricated facts, preying on the under-educated.
* Malicious ulterior motive.
* Echo chamber audience.
* Strives to appear superficially reasonable / wedge strategy.
* Not taken seriously by even those with a minority/contrary opinion within the domain.
* Claims that those against are motivated by financial conspiracy.
* Strong correlation with other revolting stances and practices.

User Info: thasan20

thasan20
3 weeks ago#46
I would also put anything that whitewashes colonialism, in the Americas or otherwise, in the alt-history category.
"50 Cent is just an alt account I use to troll the world." -T Mac

User Info: Gumbotron

Gumbotron
2 weeks ago#47
SuperInfinity46 posted...

I already tried to explain it - alt math would involve setting different ground rules on topics such as infinities, zero, irrational numbers and so on, how you deal with them. Then does this make sense and form a coherent and reasonable perspective. Math isn't self-defined at all, you're thinking of the calculations of values to problems. As Romes187 stated some of these things were originally set by philosophers.

Don't mean to nitpik, but I can't respond to everything.

Math is very self-defined. Numbers, geometry and other things are self-defined in mathematics by mathematics as abstract models of real world concepts. Philosophers debate as to whether or not '1' exists in the real world. Operations on said numbers are also defined strictly mathematically. There are things that are dodgy about limits, but um... there isn't really that much room for you to 'change the ground rules' with regards to anything you mentioned.

The only example that comes to mind is when stat use -1/12 as the sum of all positive integers in Ramanujan Summation. It's intuitively wrong, relies on a faulty proof, and applicable in specific cases where something else is probably wrong too. Even then it's encompassed by mathematics as a whole.

User Info: DnDer

DnDer
2 weeks ago#48
SuperInfinity46 posted...
acolytes posted...
What is alt-history? Like, holocaust denial?


Did you not read tankboy's post directly above yours?

"alt" has no inherent value attributable to it. Just because something is not the mainstream dogma of the time does not make it wrong and stupid.

Interesting that you, of all people, couldn't agree to the basic example that Holocaust denial was alt-history.
What has books ever teached us? -- Captain Afrohead
Subject-verb agreement. -- t3h 0n3

User Info: Torgo

Torgo
2 weeks ago#49
f38748293478324 posted...
If you guys want the same thing to happen in 2016 that happened in 2020, then keep on the road you're going. Sometimes what isn't taught is the most important lesson of all.


What does that even mean?

More "look what you made me do" republicanism...
Moderators: Please check to see if I'm describing a widely reported, highly publicized world news event before you rush to moderate me. Thank you.

User Info: MrMolinaro

MrMolinaro
2 weeks ago#50
No.

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