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  3. The real reason Lugia isn't mentioned in the Legend of Ecruteak

User Info: Adam_Ace

Adam_Ace
3 days ago#1
I'm currently burnt out on Sword and Shield and PMD:DX right now so I figured why not pitch a theory I came up with a couple of months ago.

When it comes to Generation II, I've always found it to be rather overlooked when it comes to theory crafting. However when I was playing HeartGold recently doing Oak's Challenge (DON'T DO IT) it gave me the chance to really look at Johto in greater detail and when I was paying attention to the history of Ecruteak City... a few things really struck me about the Burnt Tower Incident. Most of the focus when fans look at this incident is who the 3 dogs were rather than the circumstances of the storm itself and... well... let's get into that.

Now I'm sure almost everyone on here will be familiar with the Events of the Burnt Tower but I'll recap for those who don't. In Ecruteak City in the Johto region there exists Two Towers, The Tin Tower and The Brass Tower where legend has it the legendary bird Pokemon Ho-Oh and Lugia once roosted. On one tragic night the Brass Tower was struck by a bolt of lightning which caused a fire in which three Pokemon (suspected to be Eeveelutions but that's a theory for another day) perished. Following the tragedy Ho-Oh! resurrected the 3 Pokemon as embodiments of the Lightning that struck the tower (Raikou), The fire which incinerated the tower (Entei) and the rain that doused the flames (Suicune) .
So what exactly is the Mystery here? We know what caused the fire, it was the Lightning from the storm but the question I want to pose is, What caused the storm?

If you've read up on the lore you may notice there's one particular element of this legend that really doesn't get mentioned... Lugia.

The games make it abundantly clear that Ho-Oh! roosted within the Tin Tower which would strongly suggest Lugia roosted within the Brass Tower that was burnt down. Now let's take a look at Lugia's Pokedex entries.

HeartGold: It is said that it quietly spends its time deep at the bottom of the sea because its powers are too strong.

Platinum: It sleeps in a deep-sea trench. If it flaps its wings, it is said to cause a 40-day storm.

Alpha Sapphire: Lugia's wings pack devastating power — a light fluttering of its wings can blow apart regular houses. As a result, this Pokémon chooses to live out of sight deep under the sea.

All of these entries seem to imply that Lugia fears it's own powers because it can accidentally cause storms. My theory is that Lugia's powers may have caused the storm in which the Brass Tower was destroyed and then fled to the Whirl Islands so nothing like it would happen again.

Personally I like this theory because it would explain why Lugia got the shaft in Johto's legend and most importantly it gives a fan favourite Pokemon a genuine backstory and a tragic one at that.
PSN ID: Adamight 3DS Friend Code:0061-4706-8830
then you realize pokedex entrys are random typed non-sense
that they felt was way to relate to said pokemons attributes

and most them are actually just based off slight changes from the last games dex entry on said pokemon
the following is sponsored by a lost bet...
play "maplestory" its fun! try it you will like it

User Info: WolfishOne

WolfishOne
3 days ago#3
Also pokedex
Gardevoir can create a small black hole

Don't pay attention to dex
Most Wanteds : Sora,Spyro
IGN:Jay

User Info: Andrex_93

Andrex_93
3 days ago#4
I also think this is probably what happened (although another possibility might be that one of the Pokémon was Electric even before becoming the Raikou we know and draw in a lightning); after all, Lugia it is said to have moved to the Whirl Islands, and the old guy in Ecruteak also speaks about a dragon/bird-like Pokémon flying in the sky.. It is at the very least heavily implied (but I think it might be outright stated, somewhere) that Lugia moved from the Brass Tower to the Whirl Islands.
"Actors are agents of change. A film, a piece of theater, a piece of music, or a book can make a difference. It can change the world." - Alan Rickman

User Info: Adam_Ace

Adam_Ace
3 days ago#5
Andrex_93 posted...
I also think this is probably what happened (although another possibility might be that one of the Pokémon was Electric even before becoming the Raikou we know and draw in a lightning); after all, Lugia it is said to have moved to the Whirl Islands, and the old guy in Ecruteak also speaks about a dragon/bird-like Pokémon flying in the sky.. It is at the very least heavily implied (but I think it might be outright stated, somewhere) that Lugia moved from the Brass Tower to the Whirl Islands.

See @Andrex_93 this is why your name always shows up yellow when I see you post on here. You're one of the very few open minded people on here who don't mind engaging in discussion and than theory. To be honest the reason I like the theory is because it offers world building while also fitting into the lore of Johto itself and it also does justice to one of the fan favourite legendaries of the entire series.

And you're right, Lugia is very rarely mentioned in Johto and when he is spoken about by NPC's it's never with the same kind of awe that Ho-Oh! is. I remember there was an NPC kid in Johto and his dad and the kid was afraid that if he did something bad he'd be to the Whirl Islands which further signifies that Lugia is feared rather than worshipped unlike Ho-Oh. I'm not saying Lugia is an evil Pokemon, quite the opposite I'm saying that the theory probably makes him one of the most sympathetic in the series... but it's just a theory.

As for the whole "PokeDex being filled with horse s***" thing - well yeah but I think a lot of fans don't really understand how the PokeDex entries were created. Professor Oak passing himself as a god who couldn't possibly know half these details and life to tell the detail, no the PokeDex are likely taken from second hand accounts and villages over time to compile random entries. When it comes to legendaries they've rarely if ever been seen so of course their entries are going to be sensationalised and the same goes for Mythical Pokemon, the Pokemon universe does acknowledge they exist but have never been seen so all you'd have to go on are legends and folklore as absurd as they are.

It's such a same Pokemon fans still haven't grasped that concept.
PSN ID: Adamight 3DS Friend Code:0061-4706-8830

User Info: Andrex_93

Andrex_93
3 days ago#6
Adam_Ace posted...
See @Andrex_93 this is why your name always shows up yellow when I see you post on here. You're one of the very few open minded people on here who don't mind engaging in discussion and than theory. To be honest the reason I like the theory is because it offers world building while also fitting into the lore of Johto itself and it also does justice to one of the fan favourite legendaries of the entire series.
Thanks, Adam 😊. I indeed like this theory, and pretty much think it is indeed what's implied to have happened, in the games. In a tangential way, Ho-Oh helped Lugia when it inadvertently caused the destruction of its own Tower; or at least sympathized with it and the situation. Idk, maybe it was simply its instinct to revive those dead Pokémon, but I always kind of felt this was another way of tying in the two covers without putting them into a contrasting/rivaling relationship, as opposed to, say, Kyogre and Groudon.

Adam_Ace posted...
And you're right, Lugia is very rarely mentioned in Johto and when he is spoken about by NPC's it's never with the same kind of awe that Ho-Oh! is. I remember there was an NPC kid in Johto and his dad and the kid was afraid that if he did something bad he'd be to the Whirl Islands which further signifies that Lugia is feared rather than worshipped unlike Ho-Oh. I'm not saying Lugia is an evil Pokemon, quite the opposite I'm saying that the theory probably makes him one of the most sympathetic in the series... but it's just a theory.
You're right, there is that piece of dialogue as well, indeed contextualizing the Legendary and the spot it resides in as a scary place children are sent to, in classic old-fashioned "education"; it really is quite a neat juxtaposition, considering Lugia moved there to not cause harm but this old tale uses its supposed presence as a menacing one to make children behave.
"Actors are agents of change. A film, a piece of theater, a piece of music, or a book can make a difference. It can change the world." - Alan Rickman
(edited 3 days ago)

User Info: Adam_Ace

Adam_Ace
3 days ago#7
Andrex_93 posted...
Thanks, Adam 😊. I indeed like this theory, and pretty much think it is indeed what's implied to have happened, in the games. In a tangential way, Ho-Oh helped Lugia when it inadvertently caused the destruction of its own Tower; or at least sympathized with it and the situation. Idk, maybe it was simply its instinct to revive those dead Pokémon, but I always kind of felt this was another way of tying in the two covers without putting them into a contrasting/rivaling relationship, as opposed to, say, Kyogre and Groudon.

You're right, there is that piece of dialogue as well, indeed contextualizing the Legendary and the spot it resides in as a scary place children are sent to, in classic old-fashioned "education"; it really is quite a neat juxtaposition, considering Lugia moved there to not cause harm but this old tale uses its supposed presence as a menacing one to make children behave.

Bless you Andrex, it's always nice to see you posting bud. And I agree wholeheartedly, I don't necessarily think this was intended by GF but I do think it fits really nicely within Johto and it's lore surrounding the legendaries. I also love the idea of there being a dichotomy between the Legendaries that isn't refined to rival like. The whole idea of a Pokemon that's misunderstood because of it's powers is something this series has explored with before with Pokemon like Darkrai, Mewtwo and Absol as well.

It reminds me of how people in the world fear things like Great Whites and Killer Whales because these lethal predators and yet they've never been shown to intentionally harm humans or try to say... eat them. It's really nice going back to the old games to see what details like this you can find. I wonder what other small things there are that not many people noticed.

PSN ID: Adamight 3DS Friend Code:0061-4706-8830

User Info: Andrex_93

Andrex_93
3 days ago#8
Adam_Ace posted...
I do think it fits really nicely within Johto and it's lore surrounding the legendaries.

Adam_Ace posted...
It's really nice going back to the old games to see what details like this you can find. I wonder what other small things there are that not many people noticed.
Johto is definitely quite charged of this sort of thing; sadly, while there still are "hidden details" in the newer games, it feels to me like that's less so the case, compared to the past; I fear the faster release cycle doesn't let them get in-depth, as much, and this is the sort of thing (well, one of) you start to make cuts on, when the deadline, ever looming, approaches.
"Actors are agents of change. A film, a piece of theater, a piece of music, or a book can make a difference. It can change the world." - Alan Rickman

User Info: Adam_Ace

Adam_Ace
3 days ago#9
Interesting note that I realised the wikipedia page...

Apparently the Whirl Islands used to be 1 island but when a war erupted between 2 countries fighting for control of the Island Lugia caused the island to break into 4 pieces by summoning lightning. This is mentioned in Pokemon Soul Silver (I'm assuming it's the Kimono Girls who mention this because they don't appear in the Whirl Islands in Heartgold obviously) . Having not played the game I can't say whether this is true but if it is then that is pretty damning evidence that Lugia can summon lightning and cause storms.
PSN ID: Adamight 3DS Friend Code:0061-4706-8830

User Info: Andrex_93

Andrex_93
3 days ago#10
Adam_Ace posted...
Interesting note that I realised the wikipedia page...

Apparently the Whirl Islands used to be 1 island but when a war erupted between 2 countries fighting for control of the Island Lugia caused the island to break into 4 pieces by summoning lightning. This is mentioned in Pokemon Soul Silver (I'm assuming it's the Kimono Girls who mention this because they don't appear in the Whirl Islands in Heartgold obviously) . Having not played the game I can't say whether this is true but if it is then that is pretty damning evidence that Lugia can summon lightning and cause storms.
Very interesting. I do not remember this detail at all (will definitely pay more attention to it, next time I replay that game), but, another interesting tidbit, I just recently saw a series of videos going through the real life correspondents to the Pokémon Regions, drawing parallels between real life locations and Pokémon ones: where the Whirl Islands are, in the games, only one bigger island actually stands; so this might maybe be a reference to that, as sort of an excuse for why they deviated from the rl counterpart (not that they need to follow real life to a t or that they need an excuse not to do so, of course: this is still a game first and foremost, and changes and creative liberties need to be applied for the sake of the experience; but still).
"Actors are agents of change. A film, a piece of theater, a piece of music, or a book can make a difference. It can change the world." - Alan Rickman
(edited 3 days ago)
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