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  3. What buffs does hail need?

User Info: LightningAce11

LightningAce11
2 days ago#1
It's always been the weakest weather, how would you improve it.
I want you to grab your nuts. Grab your balls. I want you to take a handful, and just grab your nuts real quick. Swivel 'em around in a circular motion.
-LTG
Ice types get 50% def boost in Hail

I know Aurora Veil exist, but if we're trying to buff Hail as a whole, this would do it
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User Info: innercredible

innercredible
2 days ago#3
Hail isn't the problem, it's the selection of Ice types that's the issue.
Mario Maker 2 ID: TKC-1PM-94G

User Info: GujinKami

GujinKami
2 days ago#4
Boost the damage of Ice type moves, and give a boost to another move or typing in the form of an accuracy or damage buff.

Hail has similar issues as Sun where getting the most out of it relies on your Pokemon's abilities. Unlike Sun though, you can't also rely on something like a power boosted Blizzard or Ice Beam like Sun can provide for fire moves, ergo there's almost no real purpose in setting it up for yourself, and Pokemon like Vanilluxe, Abomasnow and Alolan Ninetales are not nearly as powerful as you would expect them to be because of it. There's also the fact that you're only benefiting ice types. Sun benefits a lot of fire and grass types, Rain benefits water, electric and even flying types, and Sandstorms benefit rock, steel and ground types collectively.

Like the only reason you would ever run Hail is with A-Ninetales to set up Aurora Veil, but even then due to how poor ice types are defensively, and due to the very small amount of synergies that work alongside Hail outside of the ice typing itself, at that point you're just better off running dual screens instead for example.
~Gujin
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(edited 2 days ago)

User Info: LightningAce11

LightningAce11
2 days ago#5
innercredible posted...
Hail isn't the problem, it's the selection of Ice types that's the issue.
But you look at rain and see it's not just water types that are getting the benefit. Steel types love it for the reduction in fire type damage, electric and flying types like 100% accurate thunder and blizzard.

With hail, nobody else really gets any benefit apart from ice types.
I want you to grab your nuts. Grab your balls. I want you to take a handful, and just grab your nuts real quick. Swivel 'em around in a circular motion.
-LTG

User Info: AbysmalTrinity

AbysmalTrinity
2 days ago#6
We need more viable Ice types.

Give Mamoswine and Weavile buffs
Simply Abysmal
AbysmalTrinity

User Info: Sopheroo

Sopheroo
2 days ago#7
LightningAce11 posted...
electric and flying types like 100% accurate thunder and blizzard.
Hurricane. You mean hurricane

User Info: innercredible

innercredible
2 days ago#8
LightningAce11 posted...
But you look at rain and see it's not just water types that are getting the benefit. Steel types love it for the reduction in fire type damage, electric and flying types like 100% accurate thunder and blizzard.

With hail, nobody else really gets any benefit apart from ice types.
Sand might be a better comparison since it damages non-compatible types instead of giving a flat boost of nerf to certain damage types. Though Sand is also better since it gives more types safety, boosts SpDef for Rocks, and just overall has a lot more good mons that can use it. And like you said, Hail only effects Ice, which is definitely more restricting, but adding another passive effect to it is tricky now that Aurora Veil is a thing. Give Ice a passive defensive boost and now they just don't die. Give it a passive damage boost and now they can sweep due to Slush Rush, and revenge killing them is a nightmare again due to Aurora Veil. G-Darmanitan is already a nightmare as is, imagine what he'd be like with another passive buff.

I'm not really sure what you can do to fix Ice besides just fixing the mons themselves, and maybe removing a weakness or two and possibly adding a resistance. Which I guess answers that question but doesn't really give a solid fix for Hail.
Mario Maker 2 ID: TKC-1PM-94G

User Info: LightningAce11

LightningAce11
2 days ago#9
Defense boost like sand could help. Damage buff to ice type moves, maybe.
Honestly they just need a strong hail setter to get them going. Sun had megazard y, torkoal in trick room, rain has pelipper for tailwind and hurricane spam, tyranitar for sandstorm.
I want you to grab your nuts. Grab your balls. I want you to take a handful, and just grab your nuts real quick. Swivel 'em around in a circular motion.
-LTG

User Info: Sylink

Sylink
2 days ago#10
quintonshark163 posted...
Ice types get 50% def boost in Hail

I know Aurora Veil exist, but if we're trying to buff Hail as a whole, this would do it

I had the exact same idea in mind when I entered this topic. I think it makes sense.

LightningAce11 posted...
Defense boost like sand could help. Damage buff to ice type moves, mayb
Honestly they just need a strong hail setter to get them going.
Do you have an existing candidate in mind ?

(edited 2 days ago)
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