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User Info: GujinKami

GujinKami
1 week ago#51
bd43 posted...
And as I pointed out, this is not genuinely more consumer friendly.

Unless we ignore that one of these games is intended to be beaten and played through multiple times while the other is, for lack of a better concept, intended to exist forever.

You haven't discouraged buying multiple versions to anyone encouraged to buy both.
People play through their games multiple times though, and what you're doing is assuming the ones that stick to 1 singular save file make up 100% of the audience. And even then people can just pick a version and stick with that save file, trading with other users who picked the other side of the game.

bd43 posted...
Arguably any change is significant enough to justify both exist.
2 differing gym leaders and a dozen different Pokemon depending on the version isn't nearly significant enough to justify the existence of them both.

And I'm simply arguing for a definitive version that replaces them selling the same game twice every other year (lately every year) I don't see why you're so against that sort of change unless you're pro-corporation for whatever reason.
~Gujin
http://i.imgur.com/39lX5ve.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9S9glYE.png https://imgur.com/a/Qxo9jXF

User Info: Dumb-Fumbler

Dumb-Fumbler
1 week ago#52
LordDiscord posted...
-“I mean, isn't that a given that the console the game appears on, is a requirement for said game?”

Yes, that’s the point. It’s supposed to encourage you to purchase.

-“Also isn't the purpose of console games in general, is to act as ''incentives'' to purchase the console?”

Yes. It’s not something exclusive to Pokémon. However, you cannot deny that they capitalize on it the most.

-“There has to be incentives, that are going to make people want to trade, you can't have those "Incentives'' if everybody can obtain the same pokemon, someone is going to have to have something you don't or cannot obtain in your game.”

Trade evolutions don’t require a different version of the same game. Which are different from a version exclusivities that the games have. In Trade evolutions the version you have more often than not does not make a difference as they ultimately lead to the same outcome regardless of the version. In Version Exclusives you need the other Pokémon from a counterpart version of the game. It’s a limiting choice for the consumer.

- “Also how is someone say buy a copy of Shield and another person buying a copy of Sword any different than 2 people buying a copy of the same game?”

Those that Buy sword and shield have access to content of the mirror version. Those that have the copies of sword or two copies of shield do not have access to the content of the mirrored version of the games, at all.

Wasn't one of your ''examples'' of a more consumer friendly game, is essentially having both games exist on one disc and having the 2 versions act as 2 separate save files?
That was an example, they don’t have to follow that, there are more consumer friendly methods to doing this. That wasn’t an end all be all solution.
Isn't this idea ultimately the same only instead of Palkia being locked behind another game, he is instead locked behind another save file.
In that example, you can transfer it to another game on the same file if that system were in place. But again, there are far better examples that can be implemented.
The point of the 2 versions is to "Yes'' sell consoles ( Nintendo and Game Freak is a business afterall) but its to give people reasons to trade.
They already had trade evolutions which isn’t necessarily the same locked content as version exclusives. Version exclusives don’t appear at all in their opposing game, only unless someone gives you that version exclusive.
You don't require Sword, to get all the pokemon just like you don't require Shield to get all the pokemon.
The exclusivity wasn’t just with sword and shield I even highlighted in another comment that Sword and Shield are a bit better than their past counterparts because you don’t need to buy the other game to access the content of the other game, it’s with the franchise in general that has had these problems. In Black and White it is impossible to see Braviary and Mandibuzz like in their opposite games, without trading with someone that has the opposite game. Pokémon games have released in ways that don’t really benefit the consumer.
You act as if you expect 1 person in the entire world to buy the pokemon game and that if anyone else "has'' to buy one its a ''inconvenience''.
No, no I don’t. In saying that the model GF/ Nintendo/ TPC set isn’t consumer friendly that gives freedom to said consumer. They don’t even change anything dramatically, minor and I mean really minor plot changes they get listed as one game occasionally that defeats 2-3 microns from each other. They might as well make a single game and give players the option for the moment and an option they can come back to later on because of how minor they change anything.

But as you said, they are a business after all.
Ultimately, my issue with what Sternling said is that he tried to use Cod as an example of how this model would be s***ty with other franchises, when in a game like Cod, you can't trade, there would literally be no point in having two versions of Cod, and unlike pokemon, if they locked things behind both versions, then you "Would'' have to buy both versions where as with pokemon, you do not.
They do lock content where you need the opposite version to access said content though.
Like in the previous example, in some games like Black and White 2, to get certain access to certain features you needed a different game or a different system altogether.

To get certain Pokémon you needed a GameCube back then. You needed a gba game to access certain Pokémon in the wild in Gen 4, Pokémon that weren’t available unless you transferred from a previous generation. Ultimately not being able to complete a game unless you had these other things that all depended on each other in the past.

This DLC is far better than the previous release the same game with a touch of Photoshop edit and copypasta routes and city structures for a full price. The DLC I have no qualms with, its the double release model has never been consumer friendly.
At the end of the day, yes the model may be there to attempt, to maximize on the amount of money Game Freak and Nintendo earns, but it also isn't like its so predatory that, you absolutely require to own both versions in order to have all the pokemon, the emphasis on trading, is why the two versions exist, its was designed that way originally to force you to leave your house with your Game Boy in hand, and find people to battle and trade with, that has the opposite version to you.
You even admit that it is true and that it isn’t exactly consumer friendly at all. You notice the problem exists and has always existed. They absolutely emphasize trading, but they also add on to trading as a requirement since the beginning. If you want to complete the Pokédex legally you had to trade with someone else, no other way around it.
Icicle Crash + Heat Crash = Waterfall

User Info: bd43

bd43
1 week ago#53
GujinKami posted...
People play through their games multiple times though

Some do. And those people don't care about version differences by and large.

GujinKami posted...
what you're doing is assuming

False. What I'm doing is qualifying why someone would want both versions.

If your goal is to have all the monsters, having a cart that lets you pick which set you want in a particular save file is not going to stop you from trying to collect them.

GujinKami posted...
2 differing gym leaders and a dozen different Pokemon depending on the version isn't nearly significant enough to justify the existence of them both.

Again. They both exist because they are different. If I add Ketchup to one hotdog and mustard to another, they don't both immediately appeal to everyone. Some will want one more than the other in spite of minor differences.

But, also again, no one is required to eat both. Anyone who complains about the business model of version exclusives is just defending weak willed consumers. At best you could argue it's mildly predatory, once you completely ignore that it's intended to have you communicate with people who share a common interest but chose slightly differently.
Thinking is overrated. Like Pants.

User Info: Dumb-Fumbler

Dumb-Fumbler
1 week ago#54
GujinKami posted...
2 differing gym leaders and a dozen different Pokemon depending on the version isn't nearly significant enough to justify the existence of them both.

And I'm simply arguing for a definitive version that replaces them selling the same game twice every other year (lately every year) I don't see why you're so against that sort of change unless you're pro-corporation for whatever reason.
Bingo.

The definitive version that comes out a year after is a slap in the face to those who even bought the first two games.

It’s ridiculous that they release sun, moon, ultra sun and ultra moon when the latter two had DLC levels of content in the games and market it as full price and that it’s “ok” to do.

Only one that changed significantly from the base were Black and White 2 which were true sequels to the show that ended in Black and white 1, justifying their existence of the first and second pair of the game.

Icicle Crash + Heat Crash = Waterfall

User Info: bd43

bd43
1 week ago#55
Dumb-Fumbler posted...
ultra sun and ultra moon when the latter two had DLC levels of content in the games and market it as full price and that it’s “ok” to do.

Comparing Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon conceptually to almost any other game or sets of games in the series is almost insulting the intelligence of anyone you're arguing with,TBH.
Thinking is overrated. Like Pants.

User Info: Lum_Yatsura

Lum_Yatsura
1 week ago#56
There's a lot they could do.

They could differentiate the versions with bigger exclusive content (locations, routes, sidequests, etc).
They could offer a discounted upgrade path to download the other version.

...but the future refused to change.
Shouting "what did you do that for?" at a stationary bucket of water.

User Info: Dumb-Fumbler

Dumb-Fumbler
1 week ago#57
bd43 posted...
Comparing Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon conceptually to almost any other game or sets of games in the series is almost insulting the intelligence of anyone you're arguing with,TBH.
how. Ultra sun and Ultra Moon weren’t the only games that did this. But those other games couldn’t be DLC (that I’m aware of) at their times.
Icicle Crash + Heat Crash = Waterfall

User Info: mongopikis

mongopikis
1 week ago#58
DementedDurian posted...
Skylanders. Need I remind you guys on that? If you go calling version exclusives and DLC scummy, then tell me what Skylanders is.
Whatabout-ism is an argument that by extension would bring you to the logical equivalent of excusing murderers because people who commit genocide are worse.

It is not a good argument.

User Info: ChibiRidley

ChibiRidley
1 week ago#59
I think version exclusivity comes across as particularly scummy when it comes to DLC content

I purchased Pokemon Shield knowing exactly how it differentiated from Pokemon Sword, but now theres going to be downloadable content that takes away the informed part of my informed decision.
Formally bet on 10/29/2018 that if Jibanyan is a playable character in Smash Ultimate, I will close my account

User Info: DementedDurian

DementedDurian
1 week ago#60
mongopikis posted...
Whatabout-ism is the logical equivalent of excusing Polpot because Hitler was worse.
Now you guys are comparing Nintendo to murderers? I want to spew (more) nonsense, too!

...

Lasers are safe to drink. They contain no pineapple leaves and nine out of seven plumbers agree to this.

...

There. Your turn.
You can pick your battles, and you can pick your nose. But you can't pick your battle's nose.
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