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User Info: Andrex_93

Andrex_93
1 week ago#21
metroidfan987 posted...
Literally every pokemon in the anime knows over 4 moves.
I'm by far no expert of the anime, but, from my very limited knowledge, yeah, I agree with #20, it seems like Pokémon mostly know 4 Moves: they just don't put a huge emphasis on forgetting Moves, and, for example, Pikachu just stops using one of its older Moves when learning a new one.

metroidfan987 posted...
Also, how many other RPG combat systems limits a character to a measly four techniques? People need to stop defending an antiquated, stale, and, flawed system. "Four Moveslot Syndrome" is always disappointing to deal with. Imagine if other RPGs limited their combat systems to four moves per character. All those fanbases would be in an outrage.
I'm not hugely familiar, but I'm sure there are. And people wouldn't be upset, if it meant better balance, which is what the Move limit does, for Pokémon.

For how things end up working, more Moves overall would actually mean less viable options, overall, because you would need less Pokémon, for example for support, if every Garchomp could be a one-mon army.

metroidfan987 posted...
And yet, water types are resistant to ice, but ice types are not resistant to water. In fact, fire types should be immune to Hail damage as well. It can easily be assumed that fire types emanate enough heat to melt (or at least soften) hail drops to negate any potential damage.
I agree that Ice should gain a Water Resistance, but Fire Types being immune to Hail would only make Ice/Hail worse and Fire even more needlessly defensive: heck, if you wanna go with the "they're so hot that they would melt hail immediately", then you have the fact that they would get wet/water would rain down on them, which is still fair enough, as far as damaging Fire Types go.

Of course, there's no reason to get this lost in technicalities, since things should be more balanced than realistic, but I think you get the gist of it.
"Actors are agents of change. A film, a piece of theater, a piece of music, or a book can make a difference. It can change the world." - Alan Rickman

User Info: metroidfan987

metroidfan987
1 week ago#22
Pokemon having 6 moves each would not break the meta, it would balance it. Because let's be real here, as it stands, the official meta is not balanced, and it never has been. And the main reason for that, is that Game Freak simply doesn't care to make an actual effort to balance any meta. If it was actually balanced, Smogon would not have to ban so many mons/moves/mechanics/items/etc. Of course, no one wants to admit, that the real reason many pokemon get banned from Smogon OU, is when the Smogon higher-ups start consistently losing to those mons.

On another note, I will never understand why Smogon used to try allowing Genesect in OU. That beast in OU is almost as cancerous as Alomomola. Also, banning Funbro was totally understandable.
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User Info: Ropalme1914

Ropalme1914
1 week ago#23
metroidfan987 posted...
Pokemon having 6 moves each would not break the meta, it would balance it. Because let's be real here, as it stands, the official meta is not balanced, and it never has been. And the main reason for that, is that Game Freak simply doesn't care to make an actual effort to balance any meta. If it was actually balanced, Smogon would not have to ban so many mons/moves/mechanics/items/etc. Of course, no one wants to admit, that the real reason many pokemon get banned from Smogon OU, is when the Smogon higher-ups start consistently losing to those mons.

On another note, I will never understand why Smogon used to try allowing Genesect in OU. That beast in OU is almost as cancerous as Alomomola. Also, banning Funbro was totally understandable.
Dude, it's Smogon's job to balance OU, not Game Freak. They use a specific set of rules that helps some Pokémon, but others, not so much. Game Freak's job is to balance VGC, and there, things like Galarian Darmanitan aren't broken.

Also, how is having 6 moves going to balance the meta? By making every offensive option even stronger? Guess that defensive playstyles shouldn't be viable then.

Speaking on original topic: no, we shouldn't make the level cap higher. The only thing that would change is make every Pokémon bulkier.

User Info: JonasABlood

JonasABlood
1 week ago#24
metroidfan987 posted...
Pokemon having 6 moves each would not break the meta, it would balance it. Because let's be real here, as it stands, the official meta is not balanced, and it never has been. And the main reason for that, is that Game Freak simply doesn't care to make an actual effort to balance any meta. If it was actually balanced, Smogon would not have to ban so many mons/moves/mechanics/items/etc. Of course, no one wants to admit, that the real reason many pokemon get banned from Smogon OU, is when the Smogon higher-ups start consistently losing to those mons.

On another note, I will never understand why Smogon used to try allowing Genesect in OU. That beast in OU is almost as cancerous as Alomomola. Also, banning Funbro was totally understandable.
There are Pokémon that struggle to get a good moveset with only four moves, imagine those having to fill six move slots. Imagine something like Jolteon, who had to rely on Hidden Power because its movepool sucks, now that Hidden Power is gone, having to fill 6 move slots

Looking to the other side, there are Pokémon that have so many good coverage that it’s hard to chose only 4 moves, imagine these Pokémon getting all the coverage they want with six moves. Imagine Hydreigon having access to Dragon Pulse, Dark Pulse, Earth Power, Flamethrower, Surf and Flash Cannon all at once

If anything, 6 move slots doesn’t balance the meta in any way, it breaks it even more
Pokemon Sword OT: John
Switch FC (Teodxro): SW-3753-1567-5793

User Info: Fwahm

Fwahm
1 week ago#25
metroidfan987 posted...
Literally every pokemon in the anime knows over 4 moves. Except of course rare cases like Ditto and Unown. Also, how many other RPG combat systems limits a character to a measly four techniques? People need to stop defending an antiquated, stale, and, flawed system. "Four Moveslot Syndrome" is always disappointing to deal with. Imagine if other RPGs limited their combat systems to four moves per character. All those fanbases would be in an outrage.
They didn't pay too much attention to ensuring Pokémon only had 4 moves early on (with Drake's Dragonite being a purposeful aversion by the writers to try to give it an overwhelming presence), but the writers have been very diligent in only allowing Pokémon to have 4 moves at a time for many, many seasons now. It's even been explicitly stated before in the anime (when Ash's Infernape learned Flare Blitz, Brock states that he lost the ability to do Flame Wheel because of the move limit).
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: K3fk4

K3fk4
1 week ago#26
In Gen 1, my game went nuts er something and allowed me to make my Snorlax Lv 101 with a Rare Candy. I donno why I tried it but it worked at one point.

I kept giving it more and more, and he flew too close to the sun after 255, cause after that he went up to Lv 0. T_T
"HEY EVERYBODY, WE'RE ALL GONNA GET LAID!!"
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: Andrex_93

Andrex_93
1 week ago#27
metroidfan987 posted...
Pokemon having 6 moves each would not break the meta, it would balance it. Because let's be real here, as it stands, the official meta is not balanced, and it never has been. And the main reason for that, is that Game Freak simply doesn't care to make an actual effort to balance any meta. If it was actually balanced, Smogon would not have to ban so many mons/moves/mechanics/items/etc. Of course, no one wants to admit, that the real reason many pokemon get banned from Smogon OU, is when the Smogon higher-ups start consistently losing to those mons.

On another note, I will never understand why Smogon used to try allowing Genesect in OU. That beast in OU is almost as cancerous as Alomomola. Also, banning Funbro was totally understandable.
As I and others already explained, giving mons more Moves only means that the already good options get better, mostly, unless you make extremely fringe cases like "X body-types cannot get more than 4 decent Moves while s*** like Sunflora gets everything", and even then it's still not enough to "bring balance". The devs themselves spoke about this in both this and I think SM's interviews, and modifying the Move limit is just absolutely not the way to go.

"Four Moveslot syndrome" isn't a curse, it's a blessing: it's sometimes one of, if not the only thing, from keeping a Pokémon to completely break the meta.

Everything else you just said is completely invalid, tbh, as Game Freak doesn't balance around lolSingles, let alone taking into account the Smogon format, but instead balance around VGC, and, specifically, the limited Dex/Regional Dex formats are always the best ones, and this year and VGC 17 are two incredible formats that exemplify this.
"Actors are agents of change. A film, a piece of theater, a piece of music, or a book can make a difference. It can change the world." - Alan Rickman
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: CarefreeDude

CarefreeDude
1 week ago#28
Ice type should be "cold" type instead, removing the association to water.
Switch Code: SW-5421-8761-9807 IGN: Chris

User Info: metroidfan987

metroidfan987
1 week ago#29
Ropalme1914 posted...
Dude, it's Smogon's job to balance OU, not Game Freak. They use a specific set of rules that helps some Pokémon, but others, not so much. Game Freak's job is to balance VGC, and there, things like Galarian Darmanitan aren't broken.

Also, how is having 6 moves going to balance the meta? By making every offensive option even stronger? Guess that defensive playstyles shouldn't be viable then.

Speaking on original topic: no, we shouldn't make the level cap higher. The only thing that would change is make every Pokémon bulkier.
I have nothing against GF and Nintendo making Doubles the official VGC format. I get it, competitive singles matches would take too long. But that doesn't mean it is ever a third party's job to balance anything that should be balanced by the devs themselves. And seriously, it wouldn't hurt GF to balance singles, seeing as it is only one of two primary battle formats. More importantly, significant effort to balance singles was in fact made back as recent as Gen 5. They really started pushing Doubles as the official format after the release of Gen 6. Although Gen 6 did do a good job of significantly changing the meta, thanks to Mega Evolutions.

Why do you assume that 6 moves per mon will only improve offensive sets? Of course defensive sets would improve as well. And Smogon's lower tiers might actually get more exciting to use. But people just insist on being too narrow-minded on this subject, and it makes no sense to me.

JonasABlood posted...
There are Pokémon that struggle to get a good moveset with only four moves, imagine those having to fill six move slots. Imagine something like Jolteon, who had to rely on Hidden Power because its movepool sucks, now that Hidden Power is gone, having to fill 6 move slots

Looking to the other side, there are Pokémon that have so many good coverage that it’s hard to chose only 4 moves, imagine these Pokémon getting all the coverage they want with six moves. Imagine Hydreigon having access to Dragon Pulse, Dark Pulse, Earth Power, Flamethrower, Surf and Flash Cannon all at once

If anything, 6 move slots doesn’t balance the meta in any way, it breaks it even more
There are pokemon that struggle to get a good moveset, because Game Freak doesn't actually bother to properly balance most of the mons. Jolteon was never a major presence in OU, not even in Gen 6 OU.

Why do you assume that a pokemon's type coverage is the single crucial factor for determining the outcome of a match? If that were true, players would assemble nothing but sweeper sets.

Fwahm posted...
They didn't pay too much attention to ensuring Pokémon only had 4 moves early on (with Drake's Dragonite being a purposeful aversion by the writers to try to give it an overwhelming presence), but the writers have been very diligent in only allowing Pokémon to have 4 moves at a time for many, many seasons now. It's even been explicitly stated before in the anime (when Ash's Infernape learned Flare Blitz, Brock states that he lost the ability to do Flame Wheel because of the move limit).
When the anime tries quoting game mechanics, I cannot take them seriously. I'll admit, I stopped watching after Hoenn, but I am aware of Iris' Dragonite tanking a bunch of ice attacks. And it triggered me so much whenever I heard Clemont quoting a video game mechanic, because I know somewhere down the line all that will be (or has been) thrown out the window for the purpose of theatrics or whatever. Like Bewear straight up going Ultra Instinct against Pheromosa. To be fair, it does make sense that Pokemon in the anime cannot remember all their learnable moves. But within anime standards, pokemon using a total of 6 or 7 moves is not going to break the balance of battles. Case in point: as it currently stands, Ash's Pikachu knows and actively uses at least 7 moves.

Andrex_93 posted...
As I and others already explained, giving mons more Moves only means that the already good options get better, mostly, unless you make extremely fringe cases like "X body-types cannot get more than 4 decent Moves while s*** like Sunflora gets everything", and even then it's still not enough to "bring balance". The devs themselves spoke about this in both this and I think SM's interviews, and modifying the Move limit is just absolutely not the way to go.

"Four Moveslot syndrome" isn't a curse, it's a blessing: it's sometimes one of, if not the only thing, from keeping a Pokémon to completely break the meta.

Everything else you just said is completely invalid, tbh, as Game Freak doesn't balance around lolSingles, let alone taking into account the Smogon format, but instead balance around VGC, and, specifically, the limited Dex/Regional Dex formats are always the best ones, and this year and VGC 17 are two incredible formats that exemplify this.
The devs made a lot of excuses for Dexit, and all of them were proven false. So I will never take their words at face value ever again.

"Four Moveslot Syndrome" is a curse, because it often prevents me from creating the most optimal movesets for pokemon/teams that I want to use. I don't care if opposing teams having 6 moves per mon becomes more intense and challenging, I want that. Because that is what will push me to optimize my team(s) to the max. What I cannot stand is when a format I want to play, remains practically the same, because the devs can't be bothered to evolve it further.

Honestly, if a tournament was restricted to Gen 8 pokemon only, you could not pay me to watch it. There is no rhyme or reason to the stat spreads, and there are almost no doubles-centric abilities. What good is having new pokemon, if over 90% of them are nowhere near good enough for high-level play? The fact that Mega Evolution, a major core mechanic evolution, influenced the competitive metas more than the new pokemon themselves, is proof that Game Freak has no idea how to properly balance Singles or Doubles, and at this point, I'm fairly certain that they do not actually care for balancing the game at all.
I fix computers and smartphones. Hit me up if you are in the St. Louis area.
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User Info: c0mpu73rguy

c0mpu73rguy
1 week ago#30
metroidfan987 posted...
Although Gen 6 did do a good job of significantly changing the meta, thanks to Mega Evolutions.

D
"It's always too soon until it's too late."
"When the disgusted depart, there remains only the disgusting ones"
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